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  1. #1
    genesis is offline Member
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    How many failures of any kind have you had?

    I've had my share of auto's but have only revolvers now. My auto's functioned perfectly 99 % of the time. But it was that 1% that drove me to revolvers. I'm not saying revolvers can't malfunction. It happened to me in a match once. But a simple pull of the trigger fired the next round and I still won the match. Haven't competed for many years now. And times and guns have changed. I'm thinking of trying an auto again. So tell me 1) what you have, 2) how many shots are through it, 3) how many failures (regardless of cause - even ammo related) you've had. Please be honest.

    Thanks guys,

    Don <><

  2. #2
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is online now HGF Forum Moderator
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    I don't keep guns that don't work. Almost all my guns have run 100%. The few that have had issues - the problem went away when I stopped using that cheap red box Federal ammo at wal-mart.

    I had issues on guns that never had issues before, but didn't assume it to be the issue until I read a lot of similar problems on the Beretta Forum - people with Beretta 92s and issues with the Federal ammo.As soon as I stopped using Federal - nary a problem. EVen have a couple thousand more rounds thru the guns that had the issues - never an issue again...

    That red box Federal is made strictly for wal-mart, and is different than the other lines of federal ammo. I guess they are just cutting corners... And, it was only like 2-3 issues every 300-400 rounds. But that was enough to introduce doubt.

    In the past - IF I did have a problem - I would have to be able to put 1000 rounds more thru the gun (trouble free) before I would be willing to use the gun for self defense purposes again. But, as stated above - no more cheap walmart federal, and no more problems

    I have shot revolvers, but have never bought one. I probably never will... Being a teenager growing up in the 1980s - semi autos are just my main preference.

  3. #3
    genesis is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    I don't keep guns that don't work. Almost all my guns have run 100%. The few that have had issues - the problem went away when I stopped using that cheap red box Federal ammo at wal-mart. I had issues on guns that never had issues before, but didn't assume it to be the issue until I read a lot of similar problems on the Beretta Forum - people with Beretta 92s and issues with the Federal ammo.As soon as I stopped using Federal - nary a problem. EVen have a couple thousand more rounds thru the guns that had the issues - never an issue again. That red box Federal is made strictly for wal-mart, and is different than the other lines of federal ammo. I guess they are just cutting corners... And, it was only like 2-3 issues every 300-400 rounds. But that was enough to introduce doubt. In the past - IF I did have a problem - I would have to be able to put 1000 rounds more thru the gun (trouble free) before I would be willing to use the gun for self defense purposes again. But, as stated above - no more cheap walmart federal, and no more problems I have shot revolvers, but have never bought one. I probably never will... Being a teenager growing up in the 1980s - semi autos are just my main preference.
    I hear ya Shipwreck. I'd kinda like a Springfield Armory XDm Comp gun in 9mm with a 5.25 barrel. That 19+1 capacity sounds really nice. But I just gotta get over my "thing" about autos. On second thought, it wouldn't be my defense gun anyway as I have my revolvers for that (Ruger Redhawk and GP100). It would just be a range and fun gun. Umm. This is getting interesting.

    Don

  4. #4
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    At first I thought that you were asking about my sex life.

    But when I realized about exactly what kinds of failures you wanted to hear, I decided that my best answer could not be mere numbers. The answers involve solid facts.
    Semi-auto failures are almost always due to operator error or failure. These include:
    Failure to adequately clean,
    Failure to properly lubricate,
    Failure to correctly reassemble,
    Failure to reload ammunition with proper, due care, and
    Failure to grip tightly and to follow-through on each and every shot fired.

    So, to answer your question quantitatively, I can relate absolutely no failures at all, once I had learned proper shooting, cleaning, and reloading techniques.

  5. #5
    Coyotemoon's Avatar
    Coyotemoon is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    I don't keep guns that don't work. Almost all my guns have run 100%. The few that have had issues - the problem went away when I stopped using that cheap red box Federal ammo at wal-mart.

    I had issues on guns that never had issues before, but didn't assume it to be the issue until I read a lot of similar problems on the Beretta Forum - people with Beretta 92s and issues with the Federal ammo.As soon as I stopped using Federal - nary a problem. EVen have a couple thousand more rounds thru the guns that had the issues - never an issue again...

    That red box Federal is made strictly for wal-mart, and is different than the other lines of federal ammo. I guess they are just cutting corners... And, it was only like 2-3 issues every 300-400 rounds. But that was enough to introduce doubt.

    In the past - IF I did have a problem - I would have to be able to put 1000 rounds more thru the gun (trouble free) before I would be willing to use the gun for self defense purposes again. But, as stated above - no more cheap walmart federal, and no more problems

    I have shot revolvers, but have never bought one. I probably never will... Being a teenager growing up in the 1980s - semi autos are just my main preference.
    I beg to differ, the red box Federal ammo is not made for Wal Mart-I work in a gun shop and we sell the same RED BOX ammo , but for a few $ more than Wal Mart

  6. #6
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    The failures that I've had with autos are:
    1. broken barrel bushing on a 70 series Colt .45 - locked the gun up real tight, twice. No more collet bushings ever.
    2. bad ammo. Either my reloads with an improper bullet or bad primer, bulged case (caused by improper seating)
    3. Kimber .38 Super needed 400 rounds to break in. Lots of failure to extract.
    4. a very few stovepipe malfunctions.
    5. a very few type 3 (failure to extract followed by an attempt to feed another round).
    All but the first you practice to clear as part of your training and malfunctions are less threatening. The first one requires a field strip and replacement of broken part- not a good thing in a gunfight.

    Revolvers:
    1. dropped in sand (not me) required complete disassembly and cleaning (by me) to get it running again. This was police service weapon.
    2. ammo left in gun until it was green (not me), required hammer and punch to knock out bad rounds (me). This was officers duty weapon (don't ask).

    My personal feelings are that revolvers are more delicate than autos in some respects. They certainly are more foolproof in than for most failure to fire incidents you just pull the trigger again (hope you don't have a hang fire). When revolvers do go down, it tends to be a gunsmithing proposition. When autos fail it can usually be cleared by the operator. Autos hold more ammo. Autos are usually faster to reload and easier to reload in the dark under stress. Small revolvers such as a S&W M19 firing heavy .357 loads will break at some point (I've had 3 come so badly out of timing they were a hazard). If I can't practice with what I carry, I don't carry that weapon. A .45 auto just shoots and shoots and shoots. My HK .45c has had zero malfunctions, my XD .45c has had zero malfunctions, my FNP 45 has had zero malfunctions, my 1911 has had malfunctions, but I have over 50,000 rounds through the gun and most of the trouble was due to bad reloads except for the two broken barrel bushings (which I no longer have).

    The long and short of it is that I trust my autos, if I have a malfunction, I know how to clear it, I practice that - a lot. I will use a revolver if I have to, but I prefer the auto.

  7. #7
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is online now HGF Forum Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotemoon View Post
    I beg to differ, the red box Federal ammo is not made for Wal Mart-I work in a gun shop and we sell the same RED BOX ammo , but for a few $ more than Wal Mart
    I am not going to try to track down the info, as it was months ago on some other forum and its not worth me putting in hours to find it... But someone had a conversation with a Federal employee and posted about it. He WAS told that the ammo sold to wal-mart is a special run specifically for Wal-Mart. The item # or lot #'s were different, or something like that (and those runs are done specifically for wal-mart). I remember reading about this and it had detailed information.

    Wal-Mart is all about low prices, and they tend to push manufacturers to give them deals and make slight changes in their products to get their lower prices (since they buy in such bulk). So, this makes sense to me. Quality control seems to be lacking a bit on that Wal-Mart Federal ammo, IMHO.

    I have owned a LOT of different guns since I bought my first in 1993 (I won't say how many exactly, but it is a lot)... I have fired at LEAST 25,000-30,000 rounds, and that is an offhand, conservative estimate (it's probably more than that). Other than the one lemon Glock 17 I got in 1993 (which I later got rid of after no one could get it to work reliably), I have had ZERO issues in all of my guns over all the years - except until I started using that wal-mart red box. Then, they started having issues 2-3 times every 300-400 rounds. This was maddening to me, until I saw others complain about this at the Beretta Forum. And, I then went back in my memory and realized that every problem occurred with that WalMart red box ammo. I have ditched it and gone back to WWB and CCI Blazer aluminum - no more problems.

  8. #8
    Shipwreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    At first I thought that you were asking about my sex life.

    But when I realized about exactly what kinds of failures you wanted to hear, I decided that my best answer could not be mere numbers. The answers involve solid facts.
    Semi-auto failures are almost always due to operator error or failure. These include:
    • Failure to adequately clean,
    • Failure to properly lubricate,
    • Failure to correctly reassemble,
    • Failure to reload ammunition with proper, due care, and
    • Failure to grip tightly and to follow-through on each and every shot fired.
    Well, I agree with most of this - but I know how to lube and handle a gun. My issues were tied to 1 type of ammo. And, I had no issues at all before I used it for years and years - ZERO failures. And, zero since then (after I changed target ammo).

    I am amazed at all the posts I read of guys complaining about their guns, and it turns out they are shooting reloads (not even their own, but cheap ones they bought at some range). At that point - drop the reloads and try factory ammo.

    However, I also believe that you typically get what you pay for. Some of the "off brand" guns tend to have more issues than some of the "name" brand ones.

    Also, ALWAYS clean and re-lube your gun before the first range trip. QUite often, there is packing grease mixed in with oil, or in place of it. See a lot of posts about a horrible 1st range session with a new gun. Quite often, we find out that they never cleaned the gun before their first trip. When they do so and go out for the 2nd time, all is frequently well.

  9. #9
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    I shoot Beretta's................for a while now.........Zero failures.....96's, 92's, 84's.....nada.......I have to say though, I have NEVER used Federal, or Walmart.

  10. #10
    Shipwreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettabone View Post
    or Walmart.
    Buy that man a pizza! Gold star for you!

  11. #11
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    I own several Sig Sauer's, Beretta's, 1911's of various brands, CZ's, S&W's, Kimber's .... etc. all auto's

    I can honestly say that I've rarely had any problems with any of them.

    I can't say I never had a failure - but very few.

    For instance - New Kimber - purchased - taken to rear of store - shot 50 rounds - 3rd round failure to feed - never again never in thousands of rounds.

    I'd say reliable - you might not.

    Trust my life with it - yes - carried it for years.

    JMHO


  12. #12
    KenW. is offline Junior Member
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    With my Kimber 1911; not until therecoil spring starts loosing power. With my GP-100 and my fleet of XD/XDM; not even once in 6 years.

  13. #13
    prof_fate is offline Member
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    Have a SA XDm5.25 in 9mm
    I put in a PRP match trigger otherwise it's stock.

    I've shot about 300 rounds of factory ammo without a single issue.
    I compete in PPC using my reloads - new to reloading this year so I'm working through some kinks. I've had 4 fail to fire - pin hit the primer (winchester) and left a dent. One of the four did fire on a second attempt, the other 3 didn't. No clue as to the cause of 1 of them (2 I suspect were from wet powder as I didn't let the cases dry before reloading (lube with a water/alcohol/lube spray mix).

    I've shot about 1500 of my reloads. Just tonite I cleaned the gun for the first time. Been shooting W231 and Titegroup, a few lead rounds, mostly berry's plated and montana gold JHP.
    I"m gonna try bullseye in some rounds and see how that works - the best shot at the range says he's tried everything and while it's dirty he's had the best luck with it

    So 1800 rounds and 4 fail to fire, 2 I'm 99% sure are my fault. So I'd say 2 out of 1800 is .0011 failure rate.

    I've tested min loads, max loads, shot 115s, FMJ, lead, a mix of all in the same mag - no fail to feed or stove pipes.

    I know it's not a pistol, but i bought a SW MP15-22 semi auto rifle this year and have 900 or so rounds through it of 10 differnt kinds of ammo, some 25 years old, some on SW's do not use list - 100% reliability in every way (just cleaned it for the first time tonite too).

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