Seriously Packard?

Guns are NOT for scaring people, they are the end to a string of problems. Aside from the situation changing, they shouldn't be "presented" as a deterrent. Coming from someone (me) who's had to draw, was about to fire, but didn't have to... this should be a telling statement. I didn't present my gun to deter the bad guy, I pulled it to shoot the Mother F@#$er, but he stopped doing stupid stuff so he didn't win a stupid prize.

There is so much follow up paper work after a shooting that ending it without a shot fired would be preferred. (I hate paperwork.)

If a mugger threatens me with a knife, I'll pull my weapon. I'll also hope that he gets scared s**tless and turns and runs. This especially if the evening is young. You fire a gun at 9:00 p.m. and your Saturday night is shot to hell too.

But if it is 1:00 in the morning and no romantic prospects at hand, then I'm more willing to pull the trigger.

Ayoob has stated that stainless guns "appear" larger. With the revolver, you can see if it's loaded or not and seeing a cylinder full of hollow points in your face isn't too fun.

That being said, I would say it's more in the person holding the gun. If you're shaking in your boots while presenting a firearm, God be with you. If you've got a face of stone and eyes that say "leave now while you can" and a steady hand, I don't think it (type of gun) will make a difference.

Originally Posted by VAMarine

Ayoob has stated that stainless guns "appear" larger. With the revolver, you can see if it's loaded or not and seeing a cylinder full of hollow points in your face isn't too fun.

That being said, I would say it's more in the person holding the gun. If you're shaking in your boots while presenting a firearm, God be with you. If you've got a face of stone and eyes that say "leave now while you can" and a steady hand, I don't think it (type of gun) will make a difference.

In other words we should all try to sound like Dirty Harry. I'll buy that.

Make my day...do you feel lucky today?...I know what you are thinking punk. Did I shoot 5 shots or six...

I'm of the opinion that a red or green dot on the bad guy's chest would be enough to have him krapping and back peddling......the gun is really irrelevant.... Just my opinion. Of course if your gun doesn't have a laser I think any gun would be a deterent.....bigger is always better....at least that's what my wife tells me.

Are you kidding me...........

Originally Posted by Packard

Which will scare the bad guys more: Presenting a small Glock (or similar gun) or a J-frame?

Stainless or black?

Come on Packard, you can't fool ME !
I know you must be bored to death today.

"What can I do ?" "WHAT can I DO !" "I know, I'll go trolling for suckers at my favorite forum !"

Nice try, no cigar !

Originally Posted by Packard

Which will scare the bad guys more: Presenting a small Glock (or similar gun) or a J-frame?

Stainless or black?

Post this question on the "Perps'R'Us" forum.

The one spitting fire and brimstone always gets my attention. Of course I am not a bad guy so YMMV.

Originally Posted by DanP_from_AZ

Come on Packard, you can't fool ME !
I know you must be bored to death today.

"What can I do ?" "WHAT can I DO !" "I know, I'll go trolling for suckers at my favorite forum !"

Nice try, no cigar !

That's my thought, also...

Thank you for that post,a bad day disappeared as soon as I saw it.The sad part is I can put a face to it.

Lookit all the paperwork Zimmermann has accumulated. A mess! He should have yelled, "Freeze Sucker!" But no, he went and shot first.

Originally Posted by Packard

Lookit all the paperwork Zimmermann has accumulated. A mess! He should have yelled, "Freeze Sucker!" But no, he went and shot first.

Honest question, are you being deliberately ridiculous or do you just have no clue what you're talking about?

I know exactly what I'm talking about. In many cases pulling the trigger is the worst possible action. Zimmerman's case illustrates that abundantly.

Anyone who goes into any confrontation with the idea that pulling the trigger solves problems is got his head up his arse. It solves one problem and creates a slew of others.

It is the slew of other problems that is often overlooked at the time of the incident than should have been in the mental forefront at that time.

So options that do not include pulling the trigger are being discussed.

If a drunk comes at me with a knife, I don't need a gun to resolve that issue (although it might be slightly safer). I am confident that a drunk will not prevail with just a knife, and shooting will create even greater problems that the knife would.

Options that don't include pulling the trigger are important to consider. Make my day.

Originally Posted by Packard

I know exactly what I'm talking about. In many cases pulling the trigger is the worst possible action. Zimmerman's case illustrates that abundantly.

Anyone who goes into any confrontation with the idea that pulling the trigger solves problems is got his head up his arse. It solves one problem and creates a slew of others.

It is the slew of other problems that is often overlooked at the time of the incident than should have been in the mental forefront at that time.

So options that do not include pulling the trigger are being discussed.

If a drunk comes at me with a knife, I don't need a gun to resolve that issue (although it might be slightly safer). I am confident that a drunk will not prevail with just a knife, and shooting will create even greater problems that the knife would.

Options that don't include pulling the trigger are important to consider. Make my day.

Your statement:

He should have yelled, "Freeze Sucker!" But no, he went and shot first.

is incredibly flawed. He did not just "shoot first" IF what he claims is true, he only fired after getting his head beaten into the ground etc. At which point when someone is on top of you trying to beat you senseless do you "show him you have a gun and hope he runs off?"

What he should have done was kept his stupid ass in the damn car, but lets not turn this into a Zimmerman thread...there's no use beating this dead horse until some more info comes out at trial etc.

If you're going to even remotely rely on which gun has a more intimidating presence, I've got a cross to sell you too, maybe that will help you ward of evil in a more realistic manner.

If a drunk comes at me with a knife, I don't need a gun to resolve that issue (although it might be slightly safer). I am confident that a drunk will not prevail with just a knife, and shooting will create even greater problems that the knife would.

Let me know where to send the flowers to your widow. You have no idea what you're talking about if you discount what one can do with a knife, sober or not. You're basing all this on a few terribly flawed ideals:

1: A knife won't do serious damage
2: You actually know how drunk this person may or may not be. If could just be a ploy and you're going to get Ginsu'd into little pieces.
3: Even IF this person is drunk, it may not hamper his ability. We all handle alcohol differently and there are a lot of highly functional alcoholics out there that can be "drunk" and still operate pretty darn well.
4: You're relying on someone that is possibly impaired to do a sensible thing and turn and run at the sight of a gun.


A knife stuck through any of your organs is going to make for real bad day.



Ever seen how many blood vessels are in the spleen? Ever taken a good punch to the kidneys? Now imagine a knife sticking in one of them. If the stomach or intestines are punctured you can go septic from the waste and acids eating your insides up...

**CAUTION GRAPHIC MATERIAL**
http://www.mdtstraining.com/Contact-...aponWounds.pdf (Pg 21 is my favorite, done with a folded lid from a tuna can)

I can't speak for bad guys specifically but I can tell you that the guns that get the biggest reaction amongst friends has always been large stainless revolvers. I can lay all my guns on the table and the one that gets the most attention and comments is the GP100

I'd rethink the knife statement for sure.Anybody versed in the blade arts will tell you,if you get in a knife fight there's a very good chance you're going to bleed,especially if you are unarmed.

To the original question,it pertains to mall ninjas and sheeple,not perps.If you pull a gun one of 2 things will happen reguardless of the gun,he will stop or try to kill you plain and simple.You have no idea of their experience level and commitment to the deed.If you clear leather you better better be warranted to do so and be prepared to use it.If the situation is iffy,grip it to let them know they now dictate the outcome,never draw for intimidation.

In the knife scenario,he will be seeing a muzzle and better have quick judgement or good medical insurance/cemetary plot.I'm not going to the Zimmerman case,both handled and escalated a situation that could have been cleared up fast and peaceably.They were both ignorant and caused a nationwidw cluster.......

I used to be a bouncer. I've lost count of how many knives, beer bottles, broken beer, etc. I've taken from drunks. My favorite is to simply grab a chair and golf swing it against the strong arm. I would choose a chair over a knive 100 times out of 100. It gives you distance and disarms the other guy with one sweep.

Do you carry a chair with you? I hear that they are making a really nice OWB holster for chairs, not recliners, but they're working on it......

I think you're looking for responses to a different question.The question as asked is actually disturbing,I've been asked it before and heard a ton of opinions.Mall ninja question man.

Rounds down range does it more often.

Still unsure if you are serious, but I will give your question an honest answer.

I would be more frightened, were I a "bad guy", by a man wielding a pink gun. I would assume you were a crazy SOB and crazy+gun=scary.

Double tap, it doesn't matter J frame or Glock, it depends on shot placement.

I carry a Sig P239 but an honest answer would likely be a large, stainless revolver....JJ