Help! I need help deciding what 380 to purchase.

I am planning to purchase a 380 soon (maybe later today). I am torn and need help deciding which 380 to purchase. I have owned a LCP in the past...that is out for sure. I did not like the cheap feeling of the gun and I had a fair amount on misfires with the gun. This would also eliminate the Kel-tec; it feels like the same gun. I have recently shot the Bodyguard and the Kahr, with the Kahr being my favorite of the two. I was unimpressed by the trigger pull of the SW and I had 8 malfunctions in 50 rounds (granted I was using a rented range gun). The laser was a pain to engage (that one actually didn't work) and the black sights are hard to pick up quick. Granted, the odds of having to use the sights for my purpose is slim. The Kahr performed well and I was fond of the trigger and sights. The Kahr is slightly thicker though. I was also just shown the Sig P238...I kind of fell in love with it, the look of it any way. I have not shot it yet, but it felt good in my hands. My only concern is the SAO, I am unfamiliar with this version of Firearm, and am a bit reluctant to purchase this gun.

I will be using this gun as a concealed carry gun and possibly as a backup gun. Please tell me your thoughts; I will listen to any opinion. Also, I'd like to hear carry option opinions. What holster/where?

Thanks

You already answered your own question and I agree with your reasoning fully, although you might want reassurance. Kahr. The Sig P238 is an excellent firearm, however, a tiny cocked and locked pistol for everyday concealed carry would be the only reservation against the P238 that I would have but to each their own, especially if you are unfamiliar with the 1911 platform.

Since you are already certain that the Kel-Tec P3AT is the same as the Ruger LCP, and since you have already experienced misfires, not to mention the "cheap feeling," you wouldn't want to read my suggestions anyway.

But, of course, that has never stopped me before. So why would I let it stop me now?

First of all, a laser is a neat gimmick, but it is not a whole lot of help in self-defense shooting. I suggest that it's a gimmick that you don't really need. Some people find the laser a worthwhile learning and practicing tool, but on a defensive weapon it's more a liability than an asset.
Second, I suggest that, yes, you do indeed need to use your pistol's sights whenever possible. However, you also need to learn to use your pistol "instinctively," without recourse to sights, because that's how you shoot in low-light conditions.
Third, a black-colored rear sight is exactly what is required. You might consider painting your front sight red or orange, to help you see it quickly under marginal conditions, but in low light everything will be black anyway.
And last, I bet that your disappointment with the LCP was more a matter of your own technique than it was of the gun's failings, or that you hadn't allowed the pistol to break itself in, which takes at least 100 rounds in most cases (or a polish job). Further, although the Kel-Tec P3AT is very similar to the LCP, it is not the same, and "cheap feeling" does not necessarily indicate poor performance.

A single-action semi-auto must be carried in a holster which covers its trigger completely and which immobilizes its safety lever. In my way of thinking, this removes the SIG P238 from the realm of "pocket gun." That may keep it from becoming your backup.
A double-action-only semi-auto usually has no safety to immobilize. Given a decent holster, such pistols make good pocket guns.

In any case, small pistols are very difficult to shoot well. Essentially, they are experts' guns.
To use a pocket-size pistol effectively, you must put in a lot of slow, careful practice, both shooting and presenting it.
Are you an expert? Do you practice?

Steve, you make very good points and I agree with you on a lot of it. I feel I may have struck a nerve with the Kel-tec. Perhaps I have prematurely discounted the Kel-tec, but I really do not like the feel of it. I do practice on my primary firearm very frequently, however I do not consider myself an expert. I do believe in becoming proficient in any firearm that I intend on carrying.

Although I "voted" for the Sig P238, I agree that anyone unfamiliar with the 1911-type, SAO manual of arms should be very cautious when considering this pistol. If you feel the need for rapid deployment, your carry option is pretty much "cocked and locked", which is kind of scary to me.

I might add a plug for the Bersa .380's. They can be carried De-cocked, safety off, requiring an initial DA trigger pull. That should be pretty safe in a good holster. Subsequent rounds are fired SA.

Just my $.02......

If I was you,I would find a store that rents pistols. Then test them out,To see what works best for you.

I am not one to shy away from offering my opinion on certian matters either, even when they run contrary to those whose opinion I frequently respect and agree with. So in this case I will offer mine as well.

You have not prematurely discounted Kel Tec, it was a wise decision. Just because some one types with certain flair and aire of confidence does not make their opinion note worthy. Case in point, this post, it is my opinion and I am offering it to be taken or dismissed at your discretion. Kel Tecs are exactly what they appear to be, cheap poorly made weapons that do however in fact fire the first time you pull the trigger on a mag, most of the time. They are uncomfortable to hold and even more uncomfortable to shot. If Diamondback had not come into being they would stand alone as the worse little weapon made in Florida. Lasers are not a gimmick although the can be mistakenly used a tool that instill false confidence and should never be used as a substitute for real and consistant practice. Because people use a tool incorrectly or do not take time to understand the value of said tool does not make it a gimmick. I will also advice practice with which ever gun you decide to arm yourself. Practice is more then just standing on a line at 7 yards and trying to consistantly hit a spot on a plate.

Enjoy what ever you get, practice with it and always be safe!

RCG

I voted OTHER. However, any of the three you listed would be fine, and I would prefer the Kahr out of those three.
But, if you are looking for a good .380 for CC, I would look at the Cz-83 before making a final decision. It holds has an excellent trigger, 12 rounds, and has a longer barrel, is full SA/DA and mag release and manual safety. You can run it cocked and locked or decocked. The recoil is very easily managed because of the 28oz weight.

Another one to consider is the Bersa Thunder380CC....alloy frame, 7+1 rounds, excellent trigger, slim width, small size overall, lightweight, accurate, excellent sights, and inexpensive. The same design as a Walther PPK, which is another one to consider although I don't like the weight of the Walther. But it is a great carry gun as well.

I don't like the Beretta 380's due to weight and the mag release is not on the grip, but at the bottom of the mag. The P238 is nice, but like other have said, you really need to holster it properly to carry it. That precludes pocket carry unless you use a pocket holster. Also, the Sig is a lot of money for a .380.

Check out USAammo.com for inexpensive .380 target ammo. I recommend the MagTech HollowPoints as a good value for self-defense ammo. Also, the Winchester Ranger T-Series and Hornady XTP are great but pricier.

I also own a Bodyguard .380 and it is perfect to keep between the mattress and boxspring for the girlfriend, and easy to carry in the summer when I can't really conceal my Kahr PM9, my primary carry.

If you can handle the size and weight of the Cz, I would go for that, but if you want lighter and smaller, the Kahr is your best choice, and if pocket carry then the bodyguard .380.
CC
CC

Just picked up my P238 Blackwood last night ... I'm so happy with it, I can't wait to shoot it. I also picked up a couple of the extended 7 shot magazines and not only does it look good, but it feels even better too.

The Kahr would have been my second choice ...

I voted other because I hate .380's . I love Kahr pistols even though I have to agree with Steve about pocket pistols being hard to use. It seems to me there isn't all that much difference in size between
the Kahr .380 and their full 9mm. Why would you want to buy the .380 instead? Just curious.

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Originally Posted by recoilguy

I am not one to shy away from offering my opinion on certian matters either, even when they run contrary to those whose opinion I frequently respect and agree with...

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Eeeek! :goofy:




:smt023

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Originally Posted by recoilguy

I am not one to shy away from offering my opinion on certian matters either, even when they run contrary to those whose opinion I frequently respect and agree with.

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many opinions here i agree with, many i dont, but i respect the opinions of all who post IF their opinion is based on thought, research, fact and even personal experience.

i have very little use for the opinion of some when its based on bias (for or against), the posts of others, "what if scenarios" and junk science.

a few other posters that i respect most here i have HUGE issues with some of their fav weapons.... and out of that respect i remain silent. others, not so silent.

with respect, rcg.... opine , opine, opine!

I have purchased the Sig P238 and the Kahr P380. I am probably dumb for buying two, but I couldn't decide. The Kahr is on a platform that I am more comfortable and well versed in. The Sig, being an SAO, is something that I will practice, until I am proficient, before I carry. Let me know what you think, but please be nice. I took all of your opinions to heart and really bought what I felt the best about.

Thanks Everyone!

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Originally Posted by HCSO279

Steve...I feel I may have struck a nerve with the Kel-tec...

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Not at all. I have no stock in the company, or anything like that. But I don't like to see something disparaged for other than practical reasons.

My wife, Jean, likes her P3AT because it's really easy to hide, and very safe to carry fully loaded. It has proven itself to be completely reliable, including through lots of live-fire practice. In her small hands, it is almost the perfect pistol.
I freely admit that, upon arrival in our home, her Kel-Tec needed a ramp-and-chamber polish job, which I immediately gave it. It also needed some sort of covering around its grip, to reduce the unpleasant effects of very sharp, molded-in checkering. But I don't consider these jobs drawbacks, since I have never owned a new pistol that didn't need some gunsmithing to make it truly, functionally practical.

In my years of practical shooting, I have frequently found that people's complaints about pistol functioning were more often the fault of poor shooting technique, and less often the result of a gun defect. This has been especially true of mini-pistols, which are very hard to control, and frequently also very unpleasant to shoot.
Thus, I questioned your opinion of the LCP and, by extension, your evaluation of the P3AT that you admit never having fired.

I wish you good luck with your two new pistols.
I suggest that if you switch between the two different trigger mechanisms, you will find that learning to shoot them both accurately and effectively will be more difficult than it otherwise might. Thus, I suggest that you pick one of them and learn to shoot it as well as you possibly can, before ever trying to work with the other one.

Ok, I have pictures, how do I post them? I cannot get the uploader to work.

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

fault of poor shooting technique, and less often the result of a gun defect.

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By no way do I consider myself an expert, but I would argue that my shooting technique is far from flawed. I do agree however, that I may not have given it a proper break in. The remainder of my complaints about the LCP and the P3AT are more just my preference and I would not want to dissuade someone for those reasons alone.

It says I do not have permission to access this page.

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Originally Posted by HCSO279

Ok, I have pictures, how do I post them? I cannot get the uploader to work.

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It says I do not have permission to access this page.

Ok, since it won't work, here's a link to it on Flickr: Flickr: copman690's Photostream

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Originally Posted by HCSO279

Ok, since it won't work, here's a link to it on Flickr: Flickr: copman690's Photostream

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I've found that yours is the easiest way to post photos.
I use PhotoBucket, but it's about the same.

I envy the beautiful rainbow finish on the SIG.
Enjoy them both.

Don't own one but have shot one numerous times...my friend owns a Sig 232 and I'll tell ya that thing is sweet. Looks really cool kinda like James Bond stuff and its very accurate. If I was gonna buy a 380 I'd go for that one for sure plus its small & slim enough to carry daily.
Good Luck.

Thank you Steve. I have received many complements on that gun today. It really is a beautiful gun!

I've owned a Walther PPKS. A fine weapon with an excellent set of sights. You can learn to shoot this firearm with excellent accuracy. The PPK was not available but I believe that the same comments will apply.

The Europeans like the magazine release at the bottom rather than at the side because it is less likely to cause the magazine to accidently drop by a poorly placed finger while shooting. With practice I don't think it makes a bit of difference in terms of how quickly you can re-load.

At any rate had a double stack .380 from Beretta in the early 1980s. It was a fine weapon and very reliable. The ammo back then was not so potent so I got rid of it, but today's .380s are much better. Beretta makes a single stack and a double stack. I recommend them.

The OP did not say how he intended to carry the weapon. If you are not going to pocket carry the gun I would avoid the very small .380s in favor of the mid-sized ones that are easier to grasp and easier to shoot accurately. There are many of them out there all about the size of the PPK.PPKS. Sig makes one, CZ makes one.

This chart shows the major ones: http://mouseguns.com/CompactCompare.pdf

I voted for the Bodyguard............the Sig is sweet, but I don't like cock and lock......I carry with a Desantis holster in front pocket,,,comfortable and almost undetectable, unless you wear your pants like Elvis......

I agree with Packard.....I own a Beretta 84fs.....12+1 capacity, great trigger, great accuracy, a liitle fat to carry, but if you are a larger person, it's probably not a problem....