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  1. #1
    ronmail65 is offline Member
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    9mm Mouse Guns are Best for Everyday Carry

    I've been actively shooting for about a year, got my CCP, and have a acquired a few handguns -- Glock 19 being the smallest. The full size guns are great for range practice and recreational / target shooting. For carry, the Glock 19 is good in many situations, but it's not always ideal.

    I had a conversation with a friend who made a good point... He was encouraging me to get a Ruger LCP, Kel Tec, or other similar sized 9mm -- which is what he and his wife carry. His points were as follows; 1) if a situation arises where you need the gun, it will be a close range and a very fast encounter, and 2) if the gun is not small and light then you won't have it with you in all situations. It seems like a very common sense approach that lends itself best to one of these guns. By the way, this guy really knows his weapons and has a military resume including being a green beret -- so I put a lot of stock in his opinion. He could carry anything he wants and he carrys an LCP.

    What say you? And, if you're in this camp... what gun would you recommend?

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  3. #2
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    Personal preference. I carry a full sized gun with no problem. I'm 5'8" and can conceal a 1911 or a HKUSP or a Glock 32 or a (insert almost any large framed pistol). It's all about having the right equipment.

    -Inside the Waist band holsters can hide a whole lot of gun.
    -Larger guns are easier to shoot for the vast majority of folks.
    -They have a much larger capacity than mouse guns. (ever watch someone do a mag change under duress that hasn't practiced it before?)
    -Shorter, smaller guns require more attention to detail due to the shorter throw of the slide. (shooting at the range will not be the same as in a self defense situation)
    -Relying on the encounter to be close to you is a baaaaaad idea. (trust me, first hand experience)
    -Pocket carry (assuming here that is what you are doing) is not very efficient unless you keep your hand in your pocket and on the gun.

    These are just a few things I've noticed over the past 16 years of carrying a gun on a daily basis. Mileage may vary for some folks, but pigeon holing someone to one firearm because that's what they use is not really the best idea. Guns are a very personal item. There are brands that are better than others, but which model of those brands someone carries greatly depends on its intended use, fit, feel, function and lots and lots of practice.

    Your friend may be very well versed and trust worthy, but I'll bet that his opinions are based on his preferences. Unless you are similar in background, height, weight, dress, job, location, vehicle, fitness....well, then it may not be the best preferences for you.

    Keep an open mind, and stay safe.

  4. #3
    ronmail65 is offline Member
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    zhurdan -- great points!! I definitely prefer shooting and feel more comfortable with a full size pistol. But, I don't carry very often because they're too big, in the way, too heavy, etc... Because of these factors, I only carry when I feel like I'll be going someplace where the odds of harm are higher. I'd like to carry more often than that.

    Like a lot of this stuff, there's no absolutes -- I guess it's about finding the right level of comfort, preference, and holstering that works for the individual. Thanks!

    I'm interested in more opinions...hope to get more posts!

  5. #4
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Its all opinion

    However I disagree with the common "All self defense happens at close proximity and very fast" Now take into mind that RARELY EVER does one really need to use their CCW carry gun.

    Theres no way of knowing for sure the average distance of encounters with people who intend to harm you. It is very likely you may have to shoot someone from 30 yards say if you are on the run, maybe you missed shots when you were up close, or maybe you didn't get any shots off initially to begin with. If someone is intending to harm me, Im only going to close in on him/ her if I know they are not armed as well as I am and even then, I would rather keep my distance. It's safer to sniping them with my HK USP-C 9...

    That said, I think the last option for CCW should be these "dinky" pistols, I have heard good things about the Ruger LCP9 so that would be a good one to go with, but all these .380s and other crappy small form 9s and 45s I would never waste my money.

    I would much rather choose at glock 26 or an M&P-c if I needed something small then these other small form pistols out there because these are brands that I know are accurate and reliable 100% of the time

  6. #5
    dondavis3's Avatar
    dondavis3 is offline Senior Member
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    I carry a medium size Sig Sauer P228 or P239 in 9mm on my hip.

    But for a pocket carry I used to carry a Ruger LCP in .380



    I now carry my S&W Shield for pocket carry.



    Both are extremely dependable - the Shield is a joy to shoot - the LCP not so much.


  7. #6
    Cat's Avatar
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    My G*27 Is the one I carry on me 9+1 40cal.Evil is going down.

  8. #7
    denner's Avatar
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    Edit below

  9. #8
    denner's Avatar
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    They seem like they would be a joy to carry. It's better to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it. I like the larger subcompacts personally.

  10. #9
    ozzy's Avatar
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    On another forum I frequent someone had to put a pit bull down that attacked his dog. I won't say what forum or any other info but a single shot from a .380 ended the situation. I also carry a .380 as a pocket gun since I live in the desert and it's hard to conceal with almost no clothes on. Just to inform folks here a 9mm is a 9X19...a .380 is 9X17. Not much difference for a pocket gun.

  11. #10
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy View Post
    Just to inform folks here a 9mm is a 9X19...a .380 is 9X17. Not much difference for a pocket gun.
    I am aware of this

    But food for thought
    Price of bullets for: 9mm < .380

  12. #11
    HadEmAll is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy View Post
    Just to inform folks here a 9mm is a 9X19...a .380 is 9X17. Not much difference for a pocket gun.
    I'm not sure what you mean by that. I carry a pocket .380, and a pocket 9mm. Talking about loads the pistols are rated for, the pocket .380 will put out a 95 grain JHP at 877 fps for 163 ft/lbs of ME. The pocket 9mm will put out a 127 grain JHP at 1185 fps for 398 ft/lbs of ME. These are chronographed by me. A hell of a lot of difference.

  13. #12
    ronmail65 is offline Member
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    The content of this thread, plus other stuff I've read on line, plus personal perference is making me think that I should consider a Glock 26 -- if I want to go small (nothing smaller). It seems like the best choice for me right now.

    Of course I'd have to compare it side by side against a 19 to see if it's really small enough to make a difference, and shoot one again to see how it feels.

    This dialogue has been very useful -- thanks!

  14. #13
    recoilguy's Avatar
    recoilguy is offline Senior Member
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    The 26 is a good gun.

    Stay safe and as mentioned keep an open mind

    RCG

  15. #14
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    No one's ever wished for a smaller gun after a gun fight is over... The opposite is however true. Make mine a full size.

  16. #15
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    No one's ever wished for a smaller gun after a gun fight is over... The opposite is however true. Make mine a full size.
    Reminds me of something a smart fella told me once. "More gun is more better!"

  17. #16
    ozzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HadEmAll View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by that. I carry a pocket .380, and a pocket 9mm. Talking about loads the pistols are rated for, the pocket .380 will put out a 95 grain JHP at 877 fps for 163 ft/lbs of ME. The pocket 9mm will put out a 127 grain JHP at 1185 fps for 398 ft/lbs of ME. These are chronographed by me. A hell of a lot of difference.
    Well the 9mm does put out more but the numbers are a little closer than you say for the ammo I use for CCW. .380 90 gr @ 1000 = 200 fpe. The 9mm 115gr @ 1140 = 332 fpe. But like I say this is a pocket gun. During the winter I carry a .40 with over 500 fpe which is in the hydrostatic shock range. So I think 132 fpe difference is closer than 235 pfe you state. Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Handgun :: Choose by Product Line :: Critical DefenseŽ

  18. #17
    ozzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    No one's ever wished for a smaller gun after a gun fight is over... The opposite is however true. Make mine a full size.
    True but I'd give it away. "Hey why is that guy wearing a coat in 110 degree weather". I have the full size for winter.

  19. #18
    rgrundy's Avatar
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    The SIG P239 is the smallest pistol I've ever carried concealed. It is accurate out to 50 yards but i never shot it further and mag changes go fairly well for a small pistol. It has really nice sights too (most pocket pistols have terrible sights). By the time I got good with it, it rattled when you shook it with no mag in it of course. I would imagine that by the time you were good enough to be proficient with a pocket pistol it would ned to be replaced for sure. I carry a full size pistol now and shoot it at some very long ranges for a pistol. With that said a pistol is something you fight your way to a rifle with. Just get a full size pistol and learn to conceal it.

  20. #19
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy View Post
    True but I'd give it away. "Hey why is that guy wearing a coat in 110 degree weather". I have the full size for winter.
    It's been well over a 100 here with the heat index a couple of times this summer, I manage to pull it off with a camp shirt. If you're willing to wear an over shirt it's totally possible to conceal a full size gun. I'm particularly fond of some of Columbia's shirts that have better venting properties.

  21. #20
    ozzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    It's been well over a 100 here with the heat index a couple of times this summer, I manage to pull it off with a camp shirt. If you're willing to wear an over shirt it's totally possible to conceal a full size gun. I'm particularly fond of some of Columbia's shirts that have better venting properties.
    I would but I sweat in 50 degree weather and less clothes is better,I'm not fat just hot blooded and I can hardly stand a tshirt even in winter. I forgot to say that I'm usually close to my vehicle in which the .40 resides along with carrying my pocket rat. I have considered a second pocket rat like a derringer with a slug.

  22. #21
    kg333's Avatar
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    I've always looked at gun size as a situational thing. You want to be carrying the largest gun possible, while still being reasonable to conceal for the area you're in. If that place is a gun show, and no one is going to care if they happen to "make" you, go all out. If you're going to carry at work, and going with "don't ask don't tell" or have permission on grounds you don't cause a fuss, go with a smaller weapon that you know you can conceal adequately.

    In short, dress to the situation.

    KG

  23. #22
    ozzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kg333 View Post
    I've always looked at gun size as a situational thing. You want to be carrying the largest gun possible, while still being reasonable to conceal for the area you're in. If that place is a gun show, and no one is going to care if they happen to "make" you, go all out. If you're going to carry at work, and going with "don't ask don't tell" or have permission on grounds you don't cause a fuss, go with a smaller weapon that you know you can conceal adequately.

    In short, dress to the situation.

    KG
    Exactly, that why I just carry the BUG during the summer, if I lived in idaho or other cold states in july you bet your ass I'd carry dual .40's. Just pocket change seems to stick out this time of year never alone a pistol.

  24. #23
    GunByte is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    Personal preference. I carry a full sized gun with no problem. I'm 5'8" and can conceal a 1911 or a HKUSP or a Glock 32 or a (insert almost any large framed pistol). It's all about having the right equipment.

    -Inside the Waist band holsters can hide a whole lot of gun.
    -Larger guns are easier to shoot for the vast majority of folks.
    -They have a much larger capacity than mouse guns. (ever watch someone do a mag change under duress that hasn't practiced it before?)
    -Shorter, smaller guns require more attention to detail due to the shorter throw of the slide. (shooting at the range will not be the same as in a self defense situation)
    -Relying on the encounter to be close to you is a baaaaaad idea. (trust me, first hand experience)
    -Pocket carry (assuming here that is what you are doing) is not very efficient unless you keep your hand in your pocket and on the gun.

    These are just a few things I've noticed over the past 16 years of carrying a gun on a daily basis. Mileage may vary for some folks, but pigeon holing someone to one firearm because that's what they use is not really the best idea. Guns are a very personal item. There are brands that are better than others, but which model of those brands someone carries greatly depends on its intended use, fit, feel, function and lots and lots of practice.

    Your friend may be very well versed and trust worthy, but I'll bet that his opinions are based on his preferences. Unless you are similar in background, height, weight, dress, job, location, vehicle, fitness....well, then it may not be the best preferences for you.

    Keep an open mind, and stay safe.
    There is a big difference between what you can carry and what you prefer to carry. I can carry a full sized .44 magnum weighing over 40 ounces and have on ocassion over the last 42 years. However, I am always aware of that big heavy piece of metal on my belt all the time. There will always be stories about having to shoot further or needing more ammo but you have to draw the line somewhere. My experience over 42 years of gun ownership and carrying on and off has been that on two ocassions just showing my snub nose .38 spl was enough to scare off my would be attackers. I even saw a big guy go down to his knees after being shot with a .22 from a small revolver. It seems that most people do not want to get shot with anything and my experience does not mean that a .22 or a snub nose is the best choice for a carry gun simply because of a few personal examples.

    I prepare for the possible that is likely rather than the unlikely simply because it is possible. Reminds me of the time an elephant escaped from a traveling circus and trampled a townsman to death. It made the national news. However, no one ran out and bought elephant guns simply because it was proven that it could happen. We always have to keep in mind that we are a population of over 300 million and our odds of being victims of violent crime are small and even smaller depending on race and economic factors. Myself and others have proven that you can draw faster from the pocket than most can from an IWB holster as long as you wear pants with properly sized pockets. It takes very little time to grab my gun and pull it out. Heck, when I carry a revolver I can even shoot from my pocket if I need to. When sitting for long periods my 17 oz. gun is light in a belt holster.

    I am a realist and recognize that the odds are overwhelmingly that I will die of natural causes like everyone else around me. Now do I really want to carry a 3 lb gun for the rest of my life or carry a comfortable gun that you forget you have. I have 87 holsters and 6 gun belts from top makers and while they do help, you still are carrying a heavy gun no matter what. For some reason I seem to be the one that always has a gun on him when others leave theirs home. Seems that they do not feel a need to carry their big guns all the time. Only when they think they need them. Heck, when I think I need one, I too carry my HK and a BUG. However, for day to day stuff, I always have a gun in my pocket and that is more than I can say for anyone else I personally know around where I live.

    We all make our own choice. If you think you need a full sized gun to feel safe than by all means by one. However if you are like me, you will keep a fire extinguisher in your house rather than a fire truck in your garage. You go with the odds and prepare for what is most likely. Kudos to those that carry big guns. I have known a few that carried two full duty sized ones. However they seemed to think it was more dangerous outside their door steps than I do and it pisses them off that I am now 62 and they cannot prove me wrong in my gun choice.

  25. #24
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    All this talk about which gun is better for carry...
    But there's been nothing mentioned about skill and technique.
    Since the OP is a relatively new pistol shooter. That's an important consideration.

    Small guns are hard to shoot effectively. The smaller the gun, the harder it is to hit something with it.
    Effective shooting with a pocket-size gun takes lots of practice, and maintaining that very fungible skill requires continuing practice.
    Before taking up a pocket-size pistol of any reasonable self-defense caliber, one first should have become a pretty good shot with a full-size gun.
    Then you get a good mini-pistol, and your struggle begins.

    I strongly suggest that the minimum qualification for carrying a pocket gun is that you be able to make quick, accurate hits out to at least 20 yards with it.
    Since most self-defense shooting is done at closer range, if you can hit at 20 yards, you can easily hit at seven while running on "auto-pilot." That'll save your life.

    Oh... And about the title of this thread...
    Don't limit yourself to any one caliber. It's not really true that "9mm...[is] Best for Everyday Carry." If you're a competent enough shot, .380 ACP is quite acceptable, and much easier to learn to shoot well. I carried a .45 ACP pocket pistol for many years, and I was very good with it. (I've switched to .380 now, because of arthritis issues.)
    Accurate bullet placement trumps ballistics, every time. A good, solid hit with a .22 rimfire will stop a fight better than will a peripheral hit with a .357 Magnum, or a miss with anything.

  26. #25
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    I carry a Smith and Wesson 3913 or a Glock 19 more than anything else. I figure 8 rds of 9mm 127 +p+ Rangers will save me in 99% of encounters. A Glock 19 is a great gun and the NYPD carry it without many problems of it being under powered with the 124 gr Gold Dot. I have carried it for about 20 years now and don't feel like the job can't get done with it. Now that being said I guess if I were in a handgun fight I would want my 1911 .45acp with 230 gr Hydroshocks but if I shoot well, and I do: the 9mm should have the same effect.

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