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  1. #26
    paratrooper is online now Senior Member
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    Just because your friend is/was in the Green Beret, doesn't mean he's an expert on firearms.

    Now, if he had been in the Army Airborne, that would have been a whole different situation.

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  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy View Post
    Just to inform folks here a 9mm is a 9X19...a .380 is 9X17. Not much difference for a pocket gun.
    The difference is huge, when you consider the penetration.

    The .380 is limited to a 90 grain bullet, in most premium ammo, and may or may not reach the 12" of penetration which the FBI set as a minimum requirement (in their specific formula ballistic gel) for a self defense gun. You can increase that by using FMJ ammo, but you give up all the expansion properties.

    A 9x19 (Luger) can be loaded with 147 grain ammo, and it will penetrate beyond the 12" mark easily, practically the same as a .40 S&W and .45 ACP, and it gives up none of its expansion properties.

    It would be logical to believe that 11 -12" of penetration would be sufficient, except that it gives little margin for error, such as the possibilty that it may have to pass through an arm first, or a heavy coat, or that your attacker may be unusually large or densely muscled. With the extra 2-4 inches of penetration that you can expect from a 9x19, that is considerably less of a factor.

    I avoid having to carry a .380, when possible, but when I do, I load it with FMJ's, which yield 16-20" of penetration, and hope that I'm able to hit a precise spot, if attacked.

  4. #28
    Bisley's Avatar
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    EDIT: Never mind - others have explained it much better. I failed to read the entire thread, before commenting.

  5. #29
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    9mm Mouse Guns are Best for Everyday Carry

    I generally alternate between a S&W Shield in .40 or a .45 XDs. When conditions permit, I carry a S&W M&P .45 full-size (10+1, no thumb safety).

  6. #30
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    Frankly, this is like someone telling me what brand and style of underpants I need to wear because it worked great for them. Good on them, but guns, like underpants, are a personal decision. You will eventually settle on what's most comfortable for you.
    If mouse guns were so great, everyone would love them. Oddly enough, many people don't find them particularly enjoyable to shoot. Nor, let's be honest, do most people shoot them well.
    I personally prefer a larger chunk of lead when given the option. I carry a Dan Wesson CCO. It's easy to conceal and I can shoot it very well.
    Buy and carry what you like.

  7. #31
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    9mm Mouse Guns are Best for Everyday Carry

    Very nice piece, Overkill0084,

  8. #32
    cdcruiser is offline Junior Member
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    Re: 9mm Mouse Guns are Best for Everyday Carry

    I have the taurus pt740 its a .40 cal holds 6+1 and wieghs 18 ounces shoot good out to 30 yards

  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    All this talk about which gun is better for carry...
    But there's been nothing mentioned about skill and technique.
    Since the OP is a relatively new pistol shooter. That's an important consideration.

    Small guns are hard to shoot effectively. The smaller the gun, the harder it is to hit something with it.
    Effective shooting with a pocket-size gun takes lots of practice, and maintaining that very fungible skill requires continuing practice.
    Before taking up a pocket-size pistol of any reasonable self-defense caliber, one first should have become a pretty good shot with a full-size gun.
    Then you get a good mini-pistol, and your struggle begins.

    I strongly suggest that the minimum qualification for carrying a pocket gun is that you be able to make quick, accurate hits out to at least 20 yards with it.
    Since most self-defense shooting is done at closer range, if you can hit at 20 yards, you can easily hit at seven while running on "auto-pilot." That'll save your life.

    Oh... And about the title of this thread...
    Don't limit yourself to any one caliber. It's not really true that "9mm...[is] Best for Everyday Carry." If you're a competent enough shot, .380 ACP is quite acceptable, and much easier to learn to shoot well. I carried a .45 ACP pocket pistol for many years, and I was very good with it. (I've switched to .380 now, because of arthritis issues.)
    Accurate bullet placement trumps ballistics, every time. A good, solid hit with a .22 rimfire will stop a fight better than will a peripheral hit with a .357 Magnum, or a miss with anything.
    This is true. Bullet placement trumps caliber in my book too.

  10. #34
    RONWEN is offline Junior Member
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    When I'm in my home state I carry a .40 Glock 23, at home you can't beat a 12ga. 00 buck for placement.
    My winter months condo in the south I can't legally carry concealed because I don't own the property (I lease it).

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overkill0084 View Post
    Frankly, this is like someone telling me what brand and style of underpants I need to wear because it worked great for them. Good on them, but guns, like underpants, are a personal decision. You will eventually settle on what's most comfortable for you.

    If mouse guns were so great, everyone would love them. Oddly enough, many people don't find them particularly enjoyable to shoot. Nor, let's be honest, do most people shoot them well.

    I personally prefer a larger chunk of lead when given the option. I carry a Dan Wesson CCO. It's easy to conceal and I can shoot it very well.
    Buy and carry what you like.
    I cannot express how much I agree with bold parts above (and the post in general). What I like and can shoot very well is my recently purchased Beretta Nano. That does not mean it is a good choice for anyone else; just that it is a great fit for me. Only by trying one yourself will you know if it is a good choice for you.


  12. #36
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RONWEN View Post
    When I'm in my...winter months condo in the south I can't legally carry concealed because I don't own the property (I lease it).
    In most states, whether you own, lease, or rent month-to-month, whether you are the owner or "merely" the renter, it is your private property and your "castle."
    You are legally allowed to do anything permitted to a homeowner, unless your lease or rental agreement specifies otherwise.

    Ask your lawyer.

  13. #37
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    Re: 9mm Mouse Guns are Best for Everyday Carry

    ^ Agree... by law that is your property and you have an expectation of privacy as well as a right to defend it under the Castle Doctrine. Apartment renters or hotel rooms work this way well.

  14. #38
    RONWEN is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    In most states, whether you own, lease, or rent month-to-month, whether you are the owner or "merely" the renter, it is your private property and your "castle."
    You are legally allowed to do anything permitted to a homeowner, unless your lease or rental agreement specifies otherwise.

    Ask your lawyer.
    Every time Diane Feinstein chirps I go out & buy another gun on her "bad list".
    I was going to take the class and get a state issued carry permit (SC) but the gun store owner that teaches the 8 hour class (1/2 spent on gun laws) says unless I am actually a property owner (not just leasing) the state won't issue me a permit. I wanted the class because I thought it would be informative and fun (the shooting range part) however you are quite probably correct about my PA permit rules applying. I'll have to ask him that specific question when I go back to buy another gun (thank you Diane!).
    I was chatting with a sheriff's deputy that patrols the beach (moved down from PA many years ago) & he said while driving back & forth I must comply with each state's laws concerning loaded/unloaded, on-person vs. in glove box, etc. as I pass through those states. I may take the class just to learn those laws.
    It's a bit of a nuisance but apparently SC law requires the guns I purchase to be shipped to PA (home state) rather than walking out the door after an immediate check (as in PA) or even a waiting period.

  15. #39
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    It's not that you are leasing the property upon which you reside, but that you seem to be a permanent citizen/resident of another state.
    You can be a permanent resident of only one state at a time, and your state of permanent residence is usually determined by your driver's license.
    If you hold a Pennsylvania driver's license, but you are living in South Carolina, you may possess any South-Carolina-legal weapon on your leased property, but your carry permit has to come from Pennsylvania. If South Carolina respects your Pennsylvania permit, or if South Carolina issues an out-of-state permit, you're OK to carry. But if it doesn't, you can't.
    And, yes, absent your own FFL, you have to buy your guns in Pennsylvania.

  16. #40
    RONWEN is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    It's not that you are leasing the property upon which you reside, but that you seem to be a permanent citizen/resident of another state.
    You can be a permanent resident of only one state at a time, and your state of permanent residence is usually determined by your driver's license.
    If you hold a Pennsylvania driver's license, but you are living in South Carolina, you may possess any South-Carolina-legal weapon on your leased property, but your carry permit has to come from Pennsylvania. If South Carolina respects your Pennsylvania permit, or if South Carolina issues an out-of-state permit, you're OK to carry. But if it doesn't, you can't.
    And, yes, absent your own FFL, you have to buy your guns in Pennsylvania.
    The gun shop owner/instructor wasn't concerned about my permanent residence but rather whether I actually was a property owner in SC -- according to him if I purchase SC property I then would be qualified to hold the SC carry permit.
    The question I'll have to ask that you've raised is whether I could then also "buy" handguns in SC.

    Years ago I did hold an FFL but it was too much paperwork for only selling ~100 guns a year.

  17. #41
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    Gunshop owners are not experts in gun laws. If you want an accurate answer to your questions you need to look up the specific laws of the states you're talking about being in or pay a lawyer. Don't trust the internet for accuracy. Seems to me a great deal of people are more worried about someone thinking you are carrying than actually trying to find the right gun for themselves. I can only relate to the laws in Texas but if your gun "prints" a little under your shirt or it even accidently gets exposed, it is NOT against the law. You will get in trouble if you expose or brandish your firearm on purpose. I've been carrying 18 years and surely must have "printed" and been seen one time or another. Nothing happens. I'm with Steve, carry the biggest gun you can for accuracy (longer sight radius, more power, probably more
    rounds, etc.). Accuracy is the prime factor regardless of caliber. Just my two bits. I personally carry a small (3") 1911 in .45 ACP.

  18. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by RONWEN View Post
    When I'm in my home state I carry a .40 Glock 23, at home you can't beat a 12ga. 00 buck for placement.
    My winter months condo in the south I can't legally carry concealed because I don't own the property (I lease it).
    The only way to get a nonresident permit in South Carolina is to own real property there. Maybe you should consider spending winters down in Georgia where they will honor your PA permit.

  19. #43
    RONWEN is offline Junior Member
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    Whoops, I doubled.

  20. #44
    RONWEN is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    Gunshop owners are not experts in gun laws. If you want an accurate answer to your questions you need to look up the specific laws of the states you're talking about being in or pay a lawyer. Don't trust the internet for accuracy. Seems to me a great deal of people are more worried about someone thinking you are carrying than actually trying to find the right gun for themselves. I can only relate to the laws in Texas but if your gun "prints" a little under your shirt or it even accidently gets exposed, it is NOT against the law. You will get in trouble if you expose or brandish your firearm on purpose. I've been carrying 18 years and surely must have "printed" and been seen one time or another. Nothing happens. I'm with Steve, carry the biggest gun you can for accuracy (longer sight radius, more power, probably more
    rounds, etc.). Accuracy is the prime factor regardless of caliber. Just my two bits. I personally carry a small (3") 1911 in .45 ACP.
    That is generally true however as I mentioned before in this case the shop owner is also a certified instructor for the state tests / permits - He holds the 8 hour classes a few times each month, with four (4) hours spent on gun laws and the other half on gun safety and the firing range.

  21. #45
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Although you should consult either a lawyer or the actual laws involved, here, I believe, is your answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by Couch Potato View Post
    The only way to get a nonresident permit in South Carolina is to own real property there. Maybe you should consider spending winters down in Georgia where they will honor your PA permit.
    Pretty obviously, that's what the gunshop-owner/instructor was trying to tell you.

  22. #46
    RONWEN is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Although you should consult either a lawyer or the actual laws involved, here, I believe, is your answer:


    Pretty obviously, that's what the gunshop-owner/instructor was trying to tell you.
    Without a doubt. The other question is "Does that permit enable buying handguns in SC?"

    (Enough hijacking of the OP's thread, thanks).

  23. #47
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    I tried them all! I finally chose the Beretta Nano as my EDC.

  24. #48
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    Congratulations on a fine choice.

  25. #49
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    Thanks Couch Potato, did youu swap the grip on your Nano? If so, was it difficult?

  26. #50
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    Yes, I swapped it and it only took about 5 minutes using a penny and small punch.

    (10 minutes if you count repeating the process for the spring I forgot to move the first time. )

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