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  1. #1
    arthury is offline Junior Member
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    FFL Transfers and tampering

    Hi all,

    I have a couple of questions about buying guns online and doing a FFL transfer to my local dealer:
    1. Are the guns delivered in a sealed condition or are the packaging loose? Are the boxes opened? Are the local dealers required to open the box and inspect the contents before handing it over to me?
    2. If the above answer is "YES", then how do you guarantee that the local dealer will not tamper with your new gun? I mean tampering the gun as in stealing the new parts and replacing them with older ones?


    I would appreciate to hear your thots on this. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    I would like to add a #3 question to your list:

    Does the box come with the "finger print" round that is required for NY State registration?

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by arthury View Post
    Hi all,

    I have a couple of questions about buying guns online and doing a FFL transfer to my local dealer:
    1. Are the guns delivered in a sealed condition or are the packaging loose? Are the boxes opened? Are the local dealers required to open the box and inspect the contents before handing it over to me?
    2. If the above answer is "YES", then how do you guarantee that the local dealer will not tamper with your new gun? I mean tampering the gun as in stealing the new parts and replacing them with older ones?


    I would appreciate to hear your thots on this. Thanks!
    Wow! What a question!

    a) Yes the item is received in a sealed package, you cannot put a stamp on a firearm and send it through the mail (or UPS or whoever)

    b) Who is the package addressed to? In all likelihood the package is addressed to the FFL holder. He/she has no idea what is in the package or who it is for until he/she opens it. The paperwork is packed inside. By law, there can be no markings on the outside of the package indicating it is a firearm.

    I don't know about the "inspecting the contents part," but the FFL holder would be negligent if he/she did not examine the contents and ascertain that they match the packing slip.

    c) Most importantly, if you have concerns that your local FFL/Gun Shop owner will act in this manner, then you have erred greatly in deciding to conduct business with them.

    I have seen this done on some electronic equipment, but a few bad reviews, along with a few lawsuits, usually puts an end to that kind of activity.

    If you receive an item through your FFL, it is not yours until you have signed the 4473, so don't sign it if you have doubts, and the FFL will have no recourse but to send the item back to the sender. In addition, if the item was sent by USPS, the LGS will have to deal with the Postal Inspectors as well as the BATFE if he/she has tampered with the product.

    Sorry about the rant.

    Basically, if you have to ask this question about your local FFL/Gun Shop, then choose another.

  4. #4
    bruce333's Avatar
    bruce333 is offline HGF Forum Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    I don't know about the "inspecting the contents part," but the FFL holder would be negligent if he/she did not examine the contents and ascertain that they match the packing slip.
    When an FFL receives a gun they have to enter it in their bound book. They open it enough to verify that the serial number on the frame and make and model all matches the paperwork.


    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    Basically, if you have to ask this question about your local FFL/Gun Shop, then choose another.
    Bruce, Life Member: NRA, NCRPA, GRNC, GOA

    Naval Air Museum Barbers Point

    "I personally think we developed language because of our deep inner need to complain."--Jane Wagner
    "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
    -Isaac Asimov

  5. #5
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    In NY the paper work would involve the sheriff's department or the police department. Once the weapon arrives you have to pick up a purchase document and bring it to the dealer to fill out, then you bring the weapon with the paperwork to be checked by the police/sheriff staff and then the weapon is yours. With all that police involvement I cannot imagine anyone taking the chance of swapping out weapons.

    But I mentioned in my earlier post that I was interested in whether the weapons are shipped with the "finger print" rounds. Does anyone know? My local FFL says he will not take care of the fingerprinting as it takes a full day to get it done.

  6. #6
    ozzy's Avatar
    ozzy is offline Member
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    Easy answer, if you feel tampered with call the ATF. Personally I don't think anyone will risk there license these day's.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packard View Post
    ....But I mentioned in my earlier post that I was interested in whether the weapons are shipped with the "finger print" rounds. Does anyone know? My local FFL says he will not take care of the fingerprinting as it takes a full day to get it done.
    Can't help you with this. Of the last three firearms I have purchased, only one came with the "fingerprint round. Of course, of the last three firearms I purchased only the one with the "fingerprint" round came with 10 round magazines. If I had to guess, the companies only include the "fingerprint" rounds in the 10 round cartons.

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