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  1. #1
    MusProd is offline Junior Member
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    Need creative advice on a trade - 1st post

    I used to shoot .22 bull's-eye fairly well (league average 287) maybe 30 years ago until my car was rear ended and I ended up with neck/shoulder soft tissue damage that ruined my ability to hold a consistent sight picture.

    I have one High Standard Victor with custom grips that Iíll keep forever, and I have another NIB HS Victor (E.Hartford mfg.) with 5.5 inch barrel that will never be used. Iíd like to come up with a creative trade, and I can use all help possible in structuring a deal.

    As I have small hands, I am thinking first of a Sig p239 in 9mm and then a Kahr (9mm or 380) as well for the Victor. I do not have a CC license, so I would need certification there, so thatís another $125 -$150. Am I thinking too far out or am I close?

    What are your thoughts of putting this together or some alternative. About the only thing I think is that is engraved in stone is the Sig p239. A local dealer retails both Sigs and Kahrs at excellent prices as well as offering the CC course I would need.

    Any thoughts?

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  3. #2
    DJ Niner's Avatar
    DJ Niner is offline HGF Forum Moderator
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    Over the last few decades, I've worked in several different gun shops and a pawn shop that did a huge amount of gun-related business. This response is based on my experience working in those shops.

    First, any shop that takes trades only applies a percentage of the value to the trade. I don't have any idea of what your weapon might be worth, so I'll just throw out some nice round figures to keep things simple. Let's say the "book value" of your trade gun is around $1000. Most dealers will only give you a portion of the appraised value in trade; depending on the weapon and how hard or easy they think it will be to sell, that value might be between 50% and 65% (perhaps as high as 75% if they already have a buyer in line, looking for that exact model). So right up front, you will only be getting $500 to $650 trade value for your $1000 gun. And this is assuming your gun is absolutely New-In-Box. Lord help you if it has a nick on the grips, any bluing wear on the sharp edges of the rib, or the mag has been slid in and out a half-dozen times, rubbing a line on it; then you'll spend an hour arguing whether the gun is in 99%, 98%, or 95% condition, as that will make a HUGE difference in the book value.

    When you trade, you'll be trading against the full sticker price of the gun you want to buy/trade for. A SIG 239 goes for about $550-$850 new, depending on the area of the country, caliber and options. So you can see, based on the mythical $1000 weapon I started with, that if you walked into a shop with a thousand-dollar gun and asked what the trade terms would be for the less-than-desirable-caliber $550 SIG 239 under the glass counter, you might be told that straight across is the best they could do. If the SIG had night sights, a special trigger, or other extra-cost option(s), then you'd have to give up your $1000 gun AND throw in some more money to make it happen.

    Again, I have no idea of the objective value of your weapon. But unless it's a weapon that is easy to move (read: in great and steady demand, and not just by a few collectors or single-niche target shooters), be prepared for a shock when you ask about trades. If the dealer thinks he might have to sit on it for a while until it sells, the trade value will go down even further. On the other hand, a private sale (no dealer involved, if legal in your state/locality) is ALWAYS a better deal for the seller, as he gets to collect/keep the full dollar value for the weapon. The seller ALSO gets to put up with ridiculous low-ball cash offers, alternative trade offers, people trooping through his house/business, arguments about the condition of the weapon and whether it's original/reblued/unmodified, scumbags who can't buy a weapon from a store that does background checks, calls at all hours of the day and night, calls for weeks/months after the gun is sold, and possible targeting by thieves if they can find out where the weapon is stored or they think they can hold you up when you meet to sell it. This why internet auction sites are popular nowadays, and (in the olden days) consignment sale arrangements at gun shops were common and oft used; they get around most (but not all) of the negatives listed above.

    Personally, to get two guns AND cash out of a trade, your gun will have to be worth an absolute BUTTLOAD of money, and you're STILL going to take a bath when you do the deal. So take your tranquilizers and/or blood pressure meds before you go.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, if this is the first time you've heard it.
    "Placement is power" -- seen in an article by Stephen A. Camp
    (RIP, Mr. Camp; you will be remembered, and missed)

  4. #3
    MusProd is offline Junior Member
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    Well, I guess there's nothing like a cold dose of reality in the morning to wake you up.

    This is the first time I have even begun to think of a trade, so everything you have said is eye opening. I do thank you for sharing your expertise.

    Now I have to learn how to do an Internet sale. Do you have any good URL's to point me to in order to get a crash course in Internet sales without violating various laws? I am, obviously, not a licensed dealer. Also, would gun show sale be an option for me?

    Thanks for your in depth response, and it seems you're not a great fan of 9mm, or at least the p239 in 9mm.

  5. #4
    MusProd is offline Junior Member
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    Well, I am learning. Ohio is very friendly to private sellers, as I have learned. I would need to get the buyer's photo ID and have a proper paper trail of the sale. Otherwise, as I understand it, I am clear to sell to another private individual.

    I "tried on" the Sig p239 again today, but have not fired it. NIB, SA/DA with night sights in 9mm for $769.

    I am seriously considering selling the NIB High Standard Victor (E. Hartford) with 5.5 inch barrel outright and then buying the Sig. No trading, just cash on both ends.

    Again, comments welcomed

  6. #5
    DJ Niner's Avatar
    DJ Niner is offline HGF Forum Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusProd View Post
    Well, I guess there's nothing like a cold dose of reality in the morning to wake you up.

    This is the first time I have even begun to think of a trade, so everything you have said is eye opening. I do thank you for sharing your expertise.

    Now I have to learn how to do an Internet sale. Do you have any good URL's to point me to in order to get a crash course in Internet sales without violating various laws? I am, obviously, not a licensed dealer. Also, would gun show sale be an option for me?

    Thanks for your in depth response, and it seems you're not a great fan of 9mm, or at least the p239 in 9mm.
    Sorry about the morning wake-up.

    No internet sale guideline links that I know of; you might check with a few pawn shops in your area, as I have heard that some of them are now specializing in Ebay and online auction-type sales. There's one in my local area, and they advertise heavily on radio and in their store.

    Initially, I was a little confused about your comment about me not liking the 9mm. Actually I'm quite a fan, owning a handful of Glocks in that caliber, and it's also my normal choice for CCW when I carry. I finally traced your comment back to my "less-than-desirable-caliber $550 SIG 239" line, above. Re-reading it, I can now see how it could be taken that way, but it certainly was not how I intended it to be taken.

    I didn't know much about the newer SIG models, and had no idea what a SIG 239 was going for, so I had to Google around a bit for some prices. I also found out the p239 came in several calibers, and when I searched, I noticed the least expensive ones always seemed to be in .357 SIG caliber. Usually, when a weapon is offered in multiple calibers, one will be noticeably less popular that the others, and those weapons will be discounted by wholesalers and retailers to get/keep those guns moving. That seemed to be what I was seeing last night, and I translated it poorly when I wrote that line. My apologies for the misunderstanding, and rest assured that I am huge fan of the Nine, and will remain so. Not that there's really anything wrong with a .357 SIG, of course (it still uses a .355"/9mm bullet), I just think it's just less popular, and so the weapons are sometimes less expensive. Strange; that line I referenced seemed to make perfect sense last night when I wrote it, but it sure doesn't make much sense today...
    "Placement is power" -- seen in an article by Stephen A. Camp
    (RIP, Mr. Camp; you will be remembered, and missed)

  7. #6
    SigP229R's Avatar
    SigP229R is offline Member
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    If you have not consumated any deal yet you might want to check Gun Parts | Accessories and Parts for Firearms | Top Gun Supply they had some rather nice SigP225's from Switzerland a month or so ago and some may still be available and they are in pretty decent shape considering they are used Swiss Police weapons and at a pretty nice price. Also you could probably outright sell and get more for your pistol than you could at a pawn shop or gun shop. Also top Gun are great folks to do business with. Just my thioughts or MHO. Good luck on whatever you do.

  8. #7
    MusProd is offline Junior Member
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    I completed both ends of the deal. I sold my High Standard Victor to a collector 2 evenings ago, and I purchased a P239 yesterday from a shop located less than 1/2 mile from Top Gun. I bought well and and I was well taken care of.

    I am pleased how this all worked out, and I'm grateful for the advice I received here.

  9. #8
    DJ Niner's Avatar
    DJ Niner is offline HGF Forum Moderator
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    Very glad you found good folks on both ends of the deal, and got what you wanted.

    Now, buy a case of ammo, a few spare mags, and go shoot that dang thing 'til your trigger finger is sore!
    "Placement is power" -- seen in an article by Stephen A. Camp
    (RIP, Mr. Camp; you will be remembered, and missed)

  10. #9
    MusProd is offline Junior Member
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    I'm meeting with an NRA/OPOTA certified instructor on Tuesday for a couple of hours of 1 on 1 coaching. He is a LEO himself, and trains local forces, so I think I will benefit a lot. As it turns out we both shot in the same .22 bull's-eye league, but at different times.

    After some critique and coaching, I am planning on doing what you recommend and spending a lot of time at the range. First I want to make certain that I have a solid base so that I will not be practicing and ingraining poor form, hold, etc.

    I am acting like a kid over this new P239.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusProd View Post
    I am acting like a kid over this new P239.
    And that is what life is all about. Congratulations on a swap well done on both ends.

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