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  1. #1
    wpshooter is offline Member
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    semi-auto pistol (9mm) sight evelation adjustment

    If I am shooting my pistol at 10 yards distance, where should I strive for the bullet elevation to be at 10 yards in order to have the gun zeroed at 25 yards ? Using 124gr. bullets - brand and bullet type will vary from time to time.

    Right now the groupings are at about 2 1/2 inches below the line of the six o'clock positioning. Should I raise this grouping at this 10 yard distance ? Yes, gun has adjustable rear sight.

    I see a lot of trajectory charts on the Internet but they only give what the trajectory points are at 25, 50 & 100 yards.

    P. S. - I am not one of those persons that consider my shooting skill to be sufficient to get an good estimate of shot groups from a pistol at 25 or 50 yards, I just want to set the point of impact the correct place at 10 yards, so that it might be correct at 25 yards if I got lucky.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    johnr is offline Member
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    with the chart i saw on arizonagunrunners.com, they 0 all rounds at 50 yds. this gives you a good comparison from round to round, caliber to caliber. imho that is.

    on the 9mm the bullet hitting 0 at 50 will be 1/2" to 3/4" high at 25 yds. at 10 yds the rise would be 1/2 the 25 yard rise?

    so, with the gun is a steady rest, sand bags and whatever you have to take the human error from the trigger pull, accurate sighting at 10 yards should be 3/8" higer than your sights at 50.

    imho again, with the short sight radius of the handgun, it may not be worth adjusting the rear sight from the factory setting. unless you have the equipment, sand bags, bore site, scope to accurately place shots consistentlt at 25 or 50 yds. then the 10 yard shot takes care of itself.

    ymmv
    john

  3. #3
    wpshooter is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnr View Post
    with the chart i saw on arizonagunrunners.com, they 0 all rounds at 50 yds. this gives you a good comparison from round to round, caliber to caliber. imho that is.

    on the 9mm the bullet hitting 0 at 50 will be 1/2" to 3/4" high at 25 yds. at 10 yds the rise would be 1/2 the 25 yard rise?

    so, with the gun is a steady rest, sand bags and whatever you have to take the human error from the trigger pull, accurate sighting at 10 yards should be 3/8" higer than your sights at 50.

    imho again, with the short sight radius of the handgun, it may not be worth adjusting the rear sight from the factory setting. unless you have the equipment, sand bags, bore site, scope to accurately place shots consistentlt at 25 or 50 yds. then the 10 yard shot takes care of itself.

    ymmv
    john
    Thanks for the reply.

    Can you give me the exactly link to the trajectory info on Gunrunners, I can't seem to find it ?

    Also, if I am correctly understanding what you are saying, then if my gun is grouping 2 1/2 inches LOW at 10 yards and you are saying that instead it should be grouping at just ABOVE/OVER (3/8 inch) the 6 o'clock aim point, then I need to go waaaaaaaaaay UP with the sight adjustment, am I getting that correct ?

    Why would the gun manufacturer (Kimber in this case) have the elevation set so far to low on the gun from the factory, or do they not even test these things and leave this completely up to the gun purchaser ?

    Thanks.

  4. #4
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpshooter View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    Can you give me the exactly link to the trajectory info on Gunrunners, I can't seem to find it ?

    Also, if I am correctly understanding what you are saying, then if my gun is grouping 2 1/2 inches LOW at 10 yards and you are saying that instead it should be grouping at just ABOVE/OVER (3/8 inch) the 6 o'clock aim point, then I need to go waaaaaaaaaay UP with the sight adjustment, am I getting that correct ?

    Why would the gun manufacturer (Kimber in this case) have the elevation set so far to low on the gun from the factory, or do they not even test these things and leave this completely up to the gun purchaser ?

    Thanks.


    One reason COULD BE that many choose a middle of the bullseye as the "proper" sight pic. ( Front sight splits the bull at the 3 Oclock - 9 Oclock line)...thusly making your "low shooting" almost dead on. Personally I disagree 100% with that sight pic...but thats me.

    Of 3 Kimbers I have here...all in .45ACP Ive never had to adjust the rear sight when firing standard 230 gr ball ammo. One I turned into my "wad cutter gun" ( 200 gr flat point lead slugs) and I had to adjust the sights on it...and also had to go to a 10 lb spring...but its also the one that I swap out fo the Kimber 22 conversion...so that doesnt hurt anything.

    Take the load you will MOST typically shoot..sandbag the gun..and at the distance YOU WANT....zero the gun in at that distance. Me personally...I could care less where its going to hit at 50 yds...but once zero'd in at YOUR distance..THEN shoot at targets at "X" distances and see where it hits

    9mm Luger (124 at 1100fps) @25 yds +2.1" @50 yds +3.0" @100 yds -1.7" 106yds is Maximum PBR

  5. #5
    wpshooter is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sully2 View Post
    One reason COULD BE that many choose a middle of the bullseye as the "proper" sight pic. ( Front sight splits the bull at the 3 Oclock - 9 Oclock line)...thusly making your "low shooting" almost dead on. Personally I disagree 100% with that sight pic...but thats me.

    Of 3 Kimbers I have here...all in .45ACP Ive never had to adjust the rear sight when firing standard 230 gr ball ammo. One I turned into my "wad cutter gun" ( 200 gr flat point lead slugs) and I had to adjust the sights on it...and also had to go to a 10 lb spring...but its also the one that I swap out fo the Kimber 22 conversion...so that doesnt hurt anything.

    Take the load you will MOST typically shoot..sandbag the gun..and at the distance YOU WANT....zero the gun in at that distance. Me personally...I could care less where its going to hit at 50 yds...but once zero'd in at YOUR distance..THEN shoot at targets at "X" distances and see where it hits

    9mm Luger (124 at 1100fps) @25 yds +2.1" @50 yds +3.0" @100 yds -1.7" 106yds is Maximum PBR
    Again, thanks for your reply.

    But I am still not exactly understanding this.

    I am not holding at the 3 o'clock / 9 o'clock line.

    I am holding at the bottom of the circle/target at the 6 o'clock position and the gun is grouping 2 1/2 inches below the 6 o'clock circle/target line.

    Still seems to me that for where I am aiming, the point of impact/grouping is waaaaaaaay low !!!

    Isn't the grouping supposed to be at (or maybe slightly above) the point of aim (at a 10 yard shooting range/distance), i.e. where the EVEN alignment of the top of the front sight post & the top of the rear sight blades are pointing to on the circle/target ?

    Am I missing something here (no pun intended) ?

    Thanks.

  6. #6
    bruce333's Avatar
    bruce333 is offline HGF Forum Moderator
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    Shoot the gun off of a rest before you attempt moving the sight, to find where the GUN is shooting, without too much shooter's influence on POI.
    Bruce, Life Member: NRA, NCRPA, GRNC, GOA

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  7. #7
    wpshooter is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce333 View Post
    Shoot the gun off of a rest before you attempt moving the sight, to find where the GUN is shooting, without too much shooter's influence on POI.
    I AM shooting off of rest.

    Thanks.

  8. #8
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpshooter View Post
    Again, thanks for your reply.

    But I am still not exactly understanding this.

    I am not holding at the 3 o'clock / 9 o'clock line.

    I am holding at the bottom of the circle/target at the 6 o'clock position and the gun is grouping 2 1/2 inches below the 6 o'clock circle/target line.

    Still seems to me that for where I am aiming, the point of impact/grouping is waaaaaaaay low !!!

    Isn't the grouping supposed to be at (or maybe slightly above) the point of aim (at a 10 yard shooting range/distance), i.e. where the EVEN alignment of the top of the front sight post & the top of the rear sight blades are pointing to on the circle/target ?

    Am I missing something here (no pun intended) ?

    Thanks.
    "Why would the gun manufacturer (Kimber in this case) have the elevation set so far to low on the gun from the factory, or do they not even test these things and leave this completely up to the gun purchaser ?

    Its becasue SOME PEOPLE do use a "mid center hold".

    If the gun doesnt shoot to the POI of where YOU want it..you adjust the sights...???? Everyone doesnt have the same hold on the target...everyone doesnt see the sights indentically.

    If you are shooting that pistol being sandbagged...it shouldnt take more than 3 shots to see if its low FOR YOU or not and then to start adjusting sights

    Bottom line....Run the rear sight UP

  9. #9
    BULLMACK45 is offline Junior Member
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    sight elevation

    I had a Makarov ,that shot 2" to the right at 50'. I was going to move the sight over. I got a second opinion from my son. He shot ot 2" to the left. I left the sight where it was.You might get more opinions before you change the sights. JBR

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