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  1. #1
    mtn.shooter is offline Junior Member
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    Have you ever had to?

    My wife and I discuss guns often. She is fine w/ them as fun, plinking, sport or hunting, but is afraid of SD purposes as she feels drawing a pistol may/will escalate the problem. My opinion is that the situation needs to be dire before I draw and leveling a weapon MAY disperse the tension w/o shots fired. Now I am beginning to doubt myself as I figure if I need to come to bear, lead is flying. I am comfortable w/ defending myself and my property w/ lethal force. I am asking w/ all due respect and discretion, how many of you have had to come to bear and NOT have to fire a round? I am not sure if I phrased my question well, but I wonder how many times "I have a gun"..."I will shoot you"..."got out of my house or I will shoot you" works in lieu of lead.

  2. #2
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
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    If I have to pull my gun, the trigger is being pulled...

  3. #3
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    If you cannot reconcile the taking of a life if the circumstance presents itself, then you have no business attempting to employ a firearm in the task, be it SD/HD or CCW. You will be under more stress to becoming a victim through hesitation or victimizing an innocent by not placing your shot under duress.

    Think this out carefully and deliberately before you make any decisions on an individual basis. It is NOT a "couples" type of decision. What happens after that then may have to be worked on in a "couples" manner.

  4. #4
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Growler67 View Post
    If you cannot reconcile the taking of a life if the circumstance presents itself, then you have no business attempting to employ a firearm in the task, be it SD/HD or CCW. You will be under more stress to becoming a victim through hesitation or victimizing an innocent by not placing your shot under duress.
    If I may copy your post and change one word....
    If you cannot reconcile the taking of a life if the circumstance DEMANDS, then you have no business attempting to employ a firearm in the task, be it SD/HD or CCW. You will be under more stress to becoming a victim through hesitation or victimizing an innocent by not placing your shot under duress.

  5. #5
    mtn.shooter is offline Junior Member
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    All good stuff! Thanks! I think the only issue is that I would have ZERO problem taking a life if there were ANY chance it could mean my or my families life or well-being. I am also sure that my wife does not have a problem w/ that. The issue arises if I do need to act in such a manner, there is no guarantee that I am walking away. We both study Tae Kwon Do and both realize, no matter how good you are, there is always somebody better faster and stronger. I have come to terms with the ramifications of pulling a trigger and it could mean anything from my death to jail to lawsuits to simply some self doubt. She is not sure that throwing lead is safer than evasion.(and yes, we do have egress planned and practiced).

  6. #6
    mtn.shooter is offline Junior Member
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    Oh, and yes, my worst fear would be taking out a teenager just looking to steal some booze.

  7. #7
    8Eric6's Avatar
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    anyone breaks into my house for even a pencil is being shot but, I guess that's just me. I also live in a high crime city.

  8. #8
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    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    A teenager stealing booze can quickly become a thug with a bat/knife/gun. Many may remember my explanation regarding drawing and NOT firing, but in case you missed it, here's the short version of the lesson I learned.

    Being presented with danger and your response to it is not an ON/OFF situation. It's dynamic throughout every fraction of a second of the incident. I've cleared leather before, didn't have to shoot because the situation changed. A crow bar wielding A$$hole one second, can become a totally compliant glob of blubbering wussy the next.

    I will say that the situation does have to present a VERY clear danger to someones life and limb before even considering un-holstering (it did in my case). If it doesn't, you'll pay the price for drawing your weapon, either legally or emotionally, if you do pull the trigger.

    I've changed my viewpoint over the years a bit. If danger is approaching, I'm not going to wait for the very last second to try and deploy my weapon, nor am I going to walk around with my hand on my gun all the time. My new viewpoint, BE AWARE of your surroundings, see danger before it becomes danger. Something as simple as crossing the street, waiting for things to pass, or simply not being there are far better options than having to present/use your weapon.

    Either way, if you carry a gun, practice with it... A LOT! Take some formal defensive pistol training, it's worth every penny, and then some. The mental part of the equation? Well, that's each individuals cross to bear... but I do know I'd have a damn hard time living with myself if someone harmed a loved one and I stood there doing nothing to prevent it. That's my justification, yours may vary.

  9. #9
    Biathlete is offline Junior Member
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    America is just very afraid. I can tell by the way a lot of you talk. The way you solve the problem is to pull out a gun and well I don't think that's right. If someone hasn't seen 'Bowling for Columbine' (the film) yet I suggest you watch it.

    It's an ambiguous subject because i understand its for self defense but i just feel America has over done it.

  10. #10
    MLB's Avatar
    MLB
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    I don't believe that using a gun to diffuse a situation should be part of your plan. Bringing a gun into a situation that doesn't involve your intent on actually using it puts you in greater danger. It may turn out that way, but if your bluff is called, either you're dead or you've armed a criminal.

  11. #11
    js's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biathlete View Post
    America is just very afraid.




    you're right... we have nothing to worry about.
    Last edited by js; 05-13-2010 at 09:39 AM.
    "bing bang boom! hair out...hamburger time" - William Murderface

  12. #12
    Bisley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biathlete View Post
    America is just very afraid. I can tell by the way a lot of you talk. The way you solve the problem is to pull out a gun and well I don't think that's right. If someone hasn't seen 'Bowling for Columbine' (the film) yet I suggest you watch it.

    It's an ambiguous subject because i understand its for self defense but i just feel America has over done it.
    If you get your 'information' from Michael Moore films, then you are probably too ignorant of the actual facts to have an intelligent discussion on this subject. If you will examine some statistical records, you will find that concealed handgun licensees are the most law-abiding segments of the American society. You will also discover that the states with the highest numbers of licensees have the lowest crime numbers.

    Just because we don't depend on the Mounties to show up in time to save our asses from the dregs of society, it is not necessarily because we are more afraid than Canadians. It just means we are less tolerant of those members of society who mean us harm.

  13. #13
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    In my case its because I have NO tolerance for someone that intends on doing me or mine harm!

  14. #14
    8Eric6's Avatar
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    rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biathlete View Post
    America is just very afraid. I can tell by the way a lot of you talk. The way you solve the problem is to pull out a gun and well I don't think that's right. If someone hasn't seen 'Bowling for Columbine' (the film) yet I suggest you watch it.

    It's an ambiguous subject because i understand its for self defense but i just feel America has over done it.
    I can understand how you might think that. There are probably some people in America who have overdone it. There's a small segment of our society who enrich themselves by stoking the fears of others. There are people who listen to them and arm themselves to the hilt in preparation for the end of the world as we know it.

    I'm not like that. The FBI or the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms will never storm my home to confiscate my cache of weapons. I won't shoot up a military base or try to break into the Pentagon. In other words, I'll probably never make the news because the people who report the news never seem to care to report about RESPONSIBLE gun owners.

    So you get a steady diet of the idiots, the stupid, and the irresponsible..and you form your opinion based on that.

    It's unfortunate. I'm not like that. I'll go out on a limb and say that most of the members of this forum aren't like that.

    We're not walking the streets of Dodge City looking for a gunfight.

  16. #16
    mtn.shooter is offline Junior Member
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    Really, a lot of interesting answers and opinions and I appreciate that. I know that real life experiences are personal and not about bragging rights, so my question is "have you ever had to". You can answer yes or no...or relate the account. I am seriously wondering what % of carries have had to fire their weapon in self defense...outside of military or LEO duty. Hope it is not too personal...just curious.

  17. #17
    Freedom1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bisley View Post
    If you get your 'information' from Michael Moore films, then you are probably too ignorant of the actual facts to have an intelligent discussion on this subject. If you will examine some statistical records, you will find that concealed handgun licensees are the most law-abiding segments of the American society. You will also discover that the states with the highest numbers of licensees have the lowest crime numbers.

    Just because we don't depend on the Mounties to show up in time to save our asses from the dregs of society, it is not necessarily because we are more afraid than Canadians. It just means we are less tolerant of those members of society who mean us harm.
    +1. You pegged it, Michael Moore, and all. The point about MM was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read Bowling for Columbine. Who in their right mind believes anything that comes out of that infested rats pie whole anyway?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn.shooter View Post
    Really, a lot of interesting answers and opinions and I appreciate that. I know that real life experiences are personal and not about bragging rights, so my question is "have you ever had to". You can answer yes or no...or relate the account. I am seriously wondering what % of carries have had to fire their weapon in self defense...outside of military or LEO duty. Hope it is not too personal...just curious.
    To answer your question directly, I've never. I served in the US Army from 1966-1970 and never fired a weapon other than on the shooting range. I drove a taxi (at night) in New Orleans for two years without encountering a problem. I didn't have a gun at that time either.

    On the other hand, I have had renter's insurance everywhere that I have ever lived. It covers me for full replacement value in the event of fire or theft. In over forty years, I've never filed a claim.

    It just takes once.

  19. #19
    Biathlete is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bisley View Post
    If you get your 'information' from Michael Moore films, then you are probably too ignorant of the actual facts to have an intelligent discussion on this subject. If you will examine some statistical records, you will find that concealed handgun licensees are the most law-abiding segments of the American society. You will also discover that the states with the highest numbers of licensees have the lowest crime numbers.

    Just because we don't depend on the Mounties to show up in time to save our asses from the dregs of society, it is not necessarily because we are more afraid than Canadians. It just means we are less tolerant of those members of society who mean us harm.
    Bisley have you seen the film or not? I dont believe michael Moore presents his films with false facts, if anything his films are biased so the facts are still true but we only get to see his point of view, but he has on that particular film a statistic saying something like the states has 11,000 gun homicides each year and every other country has a few hundred at most, and they thought that it was because the states have more guns, but then they said Canada has almost just as many. So like its up to you whether you believe that or not but if it is true it contradicts what you said in a way.

    I like the idea (someone else mentionned it sorry i dont have the name of quote) that if someone does break in or what not you bring out a gun in hopes to scare them away but not with the intention of killing or even hurting them. But i read some posts saying that oh if someone breaks in, im pulling out my gun with the intention of pulling the trigger

    And Bisley I'm not trying to be condescending or anything dont take what I say as an offense

  20. #20
    Biathlete is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post




    you're right... we have nothing to worry about.
    I think the first one you can tell right by how the reporters and police chief whoever talk that they blow it out of proportion, obviously its a serious issue, no doubt but taking over america? anyways the solution here is not to give people in the drug industry firearms to shoot people that they owe money for drugs. so I don't think this is even a valid discussion point for this tread.

    On the other hand the second video is probably a perfect example of what were talking about. Scary stuff I see why people would want protection, (guns) But it brings up i think another important point, of how the United-States should maybe banned all these assault rifles or just some better system, I know the U.S. are able to purchase a lot more firearms than Canada and maybe thats part of the issue, by eliminating that maybe you could eliminate more violence?

    I hope that not everyone on the forum is against me here, im hoping you guys understand my point of view thats all.

    one last thing, can someone tell me how the gun laws work in the States, what do you have to do to own a firearm and are there different classes so on so fourth. Thanks.

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