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  1. #41
    dondavis3's Avatar
    dondavis3 is offline Senior Member
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    For me to draw my gun ... it will have to be a bad situation.

    I can not imagine how bad I would feel if I had to shoot someone - you talk about ruining your life ..

    But I've thought it through and have no doubt that I can and will shoot someone to protect myself or my family.

    I sure hope none of us has to ... but we may.


  2. #42
    nrd515525's Avatar
    nrd515525 is offline Junior Member
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    The closest I came to shooting anyone is about 30 years ago, I honked at a car in front of me, sitting at the green light, not moving. At the next light, both the driver and passenger got out, with aluminum baseball bats, and were screaming they were going to bash my skull in. I was a security guard and carried a Dan Wesson Model 15-2 .357, and as the driver cocked the bat to smash my window, I pulled my gun, and when he saw it, he yelled, "He's got a gun!", and they got into their car and took off. I went home, and a few minutes after I arrived, the police showed up. I was still in my uniform, and it was nearly identical to their own, and they said that someone had called and said I had pointed a gun at them for "no reason". I laughed and told them what really happened. The cops said, "Why should we believe you?" I had a great answer, "Because unless I'm psychic, how would I know there are two baseball bats in the car, one blue and silver, the other orange and silver?" The cops let them fill out and sign reports and then busted them. The one guy, even after the cops told them the baseball bats gave them away, still didn't understand why they got caught lying. They pled guilty to filing a false police report.

    I remember wondering if I would ever be able to hear again if I did have to shoot them. A .357 fired inside a car isn't fun.

  3. #43
    BrooklynBoy is offline Junior Member
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    To shoot or not to shoot

    I have really enjoyed reading the responses as well as the different opinions expressed here. This is a very articulate no nonesense group!

    Personally, If I have to pull my weapon I am going to use it. I go to the range 2 or 3 times a week and practice with the same weapon. If i need to pull my weapon I want to make sure I hit who I want to, where I want to. There are no second chances when it comes to protecting my family or self.

    I have also noted a change in my demeanor now that i have a CCW and carry. I try to smile more, avoid confrontations and idiots, and not take on an aggressive posture. I have no intentions (nor have in the past) of provoking a situation or becoming a target.

    My best advice is to practice at the range; take a course from an NRA instructor and pray for the best but expect the worse. One of the most important things my instructor told me is that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

  4. #44
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBoy View Post
    I have really enjoyed reading the responses as well as the different opinions expressed here. This is a very articulate no nonesense group!

    Personally, If I have to pull my weapon I am going to use it. I go to the range 2 or 3 times a week and practice with the same weapon. If i need to pull my weapon I want to make sure I hit who I want to, where I want to. There are no second chances when it comes to protecting my family or self. (snip)
    Please keep in mind that situations are dynamic. They change from second to second and if you had to draw your pistol, and the situation changed... like say the bad guy dropped his weapon and you still shot them... well, lets just say that isn't going to fair well for you if there are witnesses, and there are ALWAYS witnesses.

    Many people that I've trained, trained with and talked to have the same mentality as you do. I used to as well. Please just be mindful that situations are dynamic. Most of the people I've talked to/with about why they think like what I bolded in your comment is because they said they'll just wait to get their gun out until they know they have to use it. Personally, I'm working on the premise that I'll see the potential danger far enough out and simply move away, but if there's an immediate danger (and I mean serious danger), that pistol is getting deployed and ready for use. Then I'll re-evaluate the situation to see if it warrants pulling the trigger. Waiting until the decision point is already to the "must fire" stage may be too late. Food for thought.

  5. #45
    flyinpolack is offline Junior Member
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    X2!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bisley View Post
    Congratulations with that, and good luck for the future, because you are out of luck if some evil bastard goes through the victim selection process and it spits out your name.
    That is the best line of the week right there!
    Awesome!

  6. #46
    HadEmAll is offline Junior Member
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    In answer to the original post only, and because I like the fact that you and your wife have discussed it, I'll give you my experience.

    I've been carrying for 13 years. In that time, I've never visibly drawn, but have had my hand on the gun butt ready to several times. I can have my hand on the gun without it being visible because I carry almost exclusively in a Tommy's Original Gun Pack, always covered for the most part by an untucked shirt.

    Almost all, about 5 times, because I was approached while waiting in my vehicle in one parking lot or another for someone, wife or kids, by a parking lot bum wanting blah-blah-blah. We had an influx of Katrina Trash in town (sorry, but not really) and seems like every parking lot in town for a while was an opportunity to be approached by somebody you didn't want approaching you, some rather aggressively. That has mostly dissipated, but some are still around, in addition to locals. They mostly approached on the driver's side from my rear quarter. Must be something they teach in parking lot beggar school. Probably gauging your alertness. Anyway, every one was told quickly to get where I could see them without breaking my neck or get the F away from my truck. None were given anything, and they all skulked off to bother somebody else. None got within arm's reach of my window. All were covered by a 9mm, .40, or .45 semi-automatic held below window level. None saw the pistols, but I suspect some knew by my body language that one was there.

    Once by a dog owner who took exception to me kicking his dog when he watched it approach me from his driveway to me across the street, in violation of the local leash laws. And after I had told him to call his dog. I guess he thought he was lord of that street. That was the closest I ever came to actually using my CHL. He never knew how lucky he was to be walking away. He never raised a hand, but the potential was there. I had my hand on the gun, and pointed at his gut while still in the gunpack. That one still bothers me. He had had a yard tool of some type in his hand when he started my way, and I just knew I was going to have to threaten to shoot him, but fortunately for him, he had dropped it at the edge of his yard before he got on the street. Standard stupid dog owner stuff, "She wouldn't have bitten you. You didn't have to kick her." I won't tell you my response, but it was to the effect that his dog and then he had no business approaching me, and he'd better get out of my face.

    I've heard the "gunslinger" mentality accusations by some on this site, but I found out right there that I desperately did not want to shoot the fool, but was prepared to. I've thought it over many times since, and am convinced I would have not been billed here in Texas, but would have been asking myself for a long time what could I have done differently.

    We've had a recent string of parking lot carjacking going on here in San Antonio, so I'm on high alert these days. Good to be able to carry.

    There was actually a gun battle of sorts between a carjacker and a CHL holder in the parking lot of an Academy near my house this Sunday. The carjacker surprised him while he was loading purchases into his vehicle. Unfortunately the CHL holder took a bullet (non-life threatening) and the carjacker got away. Don't know if he was injured.

  7. #47
    twomode is offline Member
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    I can't see how this thread made it this far. But I also have to wonder how insignificant your life must be to troll forums looking for a reaction. I figure it's a couple 10 yr. olds playing hooky from day care.

    I thought these types of questions were against the rules, no matter how sincere, eh?

  8. #48
    charger5579 is offline Junior Member
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    back in May my parents had some excitement at their house. They live out in the country and about 1130 pm the front door bell rang, then someone knocked several times then tried to turn the knob. Automaticly my dad knew something wasnt right because we have a large fence in our front yard and all of the gates are locked so people dont accidently let their dogs out. He knew someone had jumped that fence. My dad has a heck of a lot of guns, and my mom is retired law enforcement so needless to say there as a few guns at their house. Dad grabbed the shotgun and opend the door to a drunk trying to get in. He put the gun in the guys face while my mom called the police. He said that drunks whole demeaner changed when he saw that barrel in his face. Cops showed up and arrested him and were talking to my dad. They said if in fact he would have shot the man, it would have been completely justified because if our front door would not have been looked he would have barged right in the house. So just because you have to show a gun to someone does not mean you have to kill them. If that man would have still been aggressive towards my dad then it would have gotten ugly, but since he was intimidated of the gun things worked out and nobody was killed and nobody had to live with taking someones life.

  9. #49
    charger5579 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dondavis3 View Post
    For me to draw my gun ... it will have to be a bad situation.

    I can not imagine how bad I would feel if I had to shoot someone - you talk about ruining your life ..

    But I've thought it through and have no doubt that I can and will shoot someone to protect myself or my family.

    I sure hope none of us has to ... but we may.

    spot on!

  10. #50
    charger5579 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliperoo View Post
    ...it's easy to talk tough, but the fact is that if any one of you shoots someone in your home...unless you can prove with 100% certainty that they were acutely and directly attempting to kill you or your family members, you will be living the next 25 to life in an orange jumpsuit and picking up trash on the side of my road chained to the guys on either side of you....which may not be the worst thing ever....this place is full of trash and looks like crap.....so fire away.
    Not in Oklahoma!!! If i look out my window and a guy is coming down my driveway with a shotgun in his hand headed towards my door i can blow him away from inside the house if i feel he is a threat to me, my family, or my property! Thats a fact!!!!!

  11. #51
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    My neice is about 30 years old. I recently gave her a pepper spray cannister. It is perfectly legal to carry and use this in NY for self-defense.

    I instructed her that if she felt threatened she should immediately grasp the cannister and orient it to have it at the ready for dispersal.

    I instructed her to NEVER mention to the bad guy that she has the spray. She should only verbally insist on the desired behavior ("go away", "don't come any closer" etc.). And at some point between 6' and 12' (minimum safe distance/maximum spray range) she should use it.

    I am of the same position on hand guns. If a guy comes towards me with a knife, I will warn him to back off. But once he fails to heed my warnings and the threshold distance is passed then the gun comes out and the weapon is discharged. No further warnings such as "I've got a gun."

  12. #52
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    Not that it totally fits with this thread, but it's a great tool for self defense... STACKING!

    I went to an 8 hour class a couple weekends ago and one of the tactics introduced to us was called stacking. In the event you're beset with more than one bad guy it can be a great way to reduce their advantage and give you the edge.

    Basically it involves moving away and in a circular direction so that if they're on either side of you, it puts both bad guys more "in line" with whatever you have to protect yourself. It doesn't work in every situation, but it can greatly increase your chances of surviving.

    For instance, if there are two bad guys at your 10 and 2 position, you move quickly while giving commands to stay away (or whatever is appropriate at the time) and you move back and either to the left or right to put them both more in front of you. Given the 10 and 2 clock example where you're at the middle of the clock, it'd be like moving from the center of the clock to outside the clock around 3:30 or so. It essentially stacks the bad guys more in line. Of course, they probably aren't going to stand still so it needs to be "on the fly", but it does give you time to Observe, Orient, Decide and Act depending on their intentions. Hopefully going to the next class where they incorporate this into a full force on force class with airsoft guns (not a big fan of airsoft, but this may convert me as being able to actually practice drawing and firing on people with real guns isn't very fun for the role players hehe). Seems like it'd be something to practice and put in your tool box. We did it without even using blue guns. Just the act of moving to put them more in line. Try it (without guns of course), it's simple and effective.

  13. #53
    kg333's Avatar
    kg333 is offline Member
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    Interesting concept, Zhurdan, I'll have to remember that one.

    To answer the topic, though, in my case a no. Worst scare I've had was walking home from my ex-girlfriend's place around midnight, passing through a parking garage on the way home (better lit than the alternatives). A couple of big guys standing near a pickup saw me, yelled "Hey!" and started to come my way. Being a fairly skinny fellow, and too young for a CCW at the time, I decided to turn around and re-direct my course in a hurry. Big guys had a good laugh about "har har we scared him" and went back to their truck. I doubt I would've handled the situation any differently if armed, although I would've felt much better in case they'd decided to follow me.

    KG

  14. #54
    sincitizen is offline Junior Member
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    the truth is nobody really knows if thry are going to pull the trigger when needed, when the problem happens you might freeze or you will control the problem how do you know if you havent been in the situation yet. just my 2 cents

  15. #55
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    Not that it totally fits with this thread, but it's a great tool for self defense... STACKING!

    I went to an 8 hour class a couple weekends ago and one of the tactics introduced to us was called stacking. In the event you're beset with more than one bad guy it can be a great way to reduce their advantage and give you the edge.

    Basically it involves moving away and in a circular direction so that if they're on either side of you, it puts both bad guys more "in line" with whatever you have to protect yourself. It doesn't work in every situation, but it can greatly increase your chances of surviving.

    For instance, if there are two bad guys at your 10 and 2 position, you move quickly while giving commands to stay away (or whatever is appropriate at the time) and you move back and either to the left or right to put them both more in front of you. Given the 10 and 2 clock example where you're at the middle of the clock, it'd be like moving from the center of the clock to outside the clock around 3:30 or so. It essentially stacks the bad guys more in line. Of course, they probably aren't going to stand still so it needs to be "on the fly", but it does give you time to Observe, Orient, Decide and Act depending on their intentions. Hopefully going to the next class where they incorporate this into a full force on force class with airsoft guns (not a big fan of airsoft, but this may convert me as being able to actually practice drawing and firing on people with real guns isn't very fun for the role players hehe). Seems like it'd be something to practice and put in your tool box. We did it without even using blue guns. Just the act of moving to put them more in line. Try it (without guns of course), it's simple and effective.
    If you execute this well you can take care of 4 adversaries with a single bullet. Very cost-effective, and it minimizes the chance of a stray bullet doing damage to innocent bystanders. Cool.

  16. #56
    bayhawk2 is offline Member
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    I would remind her of the Lubys in Texas of the people there
    eating not having a weapon to defend themselves .When one of
    the "crazies" commited to shooting randomly the people in the
    resturant.People hid helplessly under the tables while this nut
    just went around killing them.(Senerio)If someone (say your wife)?
    Had a weapon?Maybe could have saved a lot of lives.Maybe tell her this story.
    Could it happen to you?Could it happen to her?Did it happen to them?

  17. #57
    kg333's Avatar
    kg333 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packard View Post
    If you execute this well you can take care of 4 adversaries with a single bullet. Very cost-effective, and it minimizes the chance of a stray bullet doing damage to innocent bystanders. Cool.
    USMC Rules of Engagment #2: Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap, life is expensive.



    KG

  18. #58
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Came close but never had to...I could if I needed to I'm confident in that. I'm confident I could pull the trigger too. Guess it is all the "violent video games".

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