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  1. #21
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    Ohhh please God, don't let this.get locked until I get to a real internet connection. My phone is too hard to respond from properly.

  2. #22
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    Bisley is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biathlete View Post
    ...anyways the solution here is not to give people in the drug industry firearms to shoot people that they owe money for drugs. so I don't think this is even a valid discussion point for this tread.
    Was it Michael Moore who told you that we issue guns to drug dealers?

    What is it that compels 'liberals' to always attach the blame in exactly the wrong places? It is ridiculous to blame inanimate objects for murder, as if they had minds of their own, that compel them to take human lives. You are giving the instruments used in conflict supernatural powers...do you also believe in ghosts and witches?

    Here's some news for you: people get murdered with knives, baseball bats, and motor vehicles, every day. Do these objects also have this supernatural ability to select innocent humans for destruction?

    The proper use of a self-defense firearm is to enable a weak person to protect himself from a strong person. Why are you opposed to that? I suppose that Canada is so much more civilized than the US that you can simply not even conceive of being attacked. Congratulations with that, and good luck for the future, because you are out of luck if some evil bastard goes through the victim selection process and it spits out your name.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biathlete View Post
    I think the first one you can tell right by how the reporters and police chief whoever talk that they blow it out of proportion, obviously its a serious issue, no doubt but taking over america? anyways the solution here is not to give people in the drug industry firearms to shoot people that they owe money for drugs. so I don't think this is even a valid discussion point for this tread.

    On the other hand the second video is probably a perfect example of what were talking about. Scary stuff I see why people would want protection, (guns) But it brings up i think another important point, of how the United-States should maybe banned all these assault rifles or just some better system, I know the U.S. are able to purchase a lot more firearms than Canada and maybe thats part of the issue, by eliminating that maybe you could eliminate more violence?

    I hope that not everyone on the forum is against me here, im hoping you guys understand my point of view thats all.

    one last thing, can someone tell me how the gun laws work in the States, what do you have to do to own a firearm and are there different classes so on so fourth. Thanks.
    America is capitalized by the way.

    Referencing the items in bold...banning firearms does one thing really well... it keeps guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. Do you really think a criminal, the person who's going to break the law anyways, cares about a ban on guns, or the legality of owning one? If you do, you've obviously never had a run in with a criminal. How did bad people kill/rob/steal before guns? That's right, with whatever was available. So, if they banned guns, I'm sure that all the criminals would suddenly follow the law and turn them in... right?

    As far as people being "against" you, you do realize you're advocating banning of guns on a GUN FORUM, right? Probably not going to get too many people agreeing with your point of view.

  4. #24
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  5. #25
    js's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biathlete View Post
    I think the first one you can tell right by how the reporters and police chief whoever talk that they blow it out of proportion, obviously its a serious issue, no doubt but taking over america? anyways the solution here is not to give people in the drug industry firearms to shoot people that they owe money for drugs. so I don't think this is even a valid discussion point for this tread.

    On the other hand the second video is probably a perfect example of what were talking about. Scary stuff I see why people would want protection, (guns) But it brings up i think another important point, of how the United-States should maybe banned all these assault rifles or just some better system, I know the U.S. are able to purchase a lot more firearms than Canada and maybe thats part of the issue, by eliminating that maybe you could eliminate more violence?

    I hope that not everyone on the forum is against me here, im hoping you guys understand my point of view thats all.

    one last thing, can someone tell me how the gun laws work in the States, what do you have to do to own a firearm and are there different classes so on so fourth. Thanks.
    your missing the point.... but you have the luxury of not having worry about drug cartels invading your country. You have the United States as a buffer zone. Mexican drug cartels hire gang members, gang members kill, rape, kipnap, driveby shootings and break into homes everyday... so the 2 are connected. People in law enforcement will confirm this.

    Every country has their issues, for example.... Canada chooses to slaughter millions of baby seals every year by clubbing them to death. We choose to protect ourselves from violent criminals who try and inflict their violent will upon us. It's too bad baby seals can't arm themselves...

    Now, as for Micheal Moore... He uses the misfortunes of others to get rich... very rich as a matter of fact. My hope for people like him is that they live a very short life, and by gauging his current weight and eating habits... he'll either have a heart attack or stroke and he won't be here much longer anyway. I have a big problem with that POS and refuse to watch his one sided propaganda. He would make Joseph Goebbels proud.

    *See Signature*
    "bing bang boom! hair out...hamburger time" - William Murderface

  6. #26
    fliperoo is offline Banned
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    To all of you macho muscle flexers...

    ...it's easy to talk tough, but the fact is that if any one of you shoots someone in your home...unless you can prove with 100% certainty that they were acutely and directly attempting to kill you or your family members, you will be living the next 25 to life in an orange jumpsuit and picking up trash on the side of my road chained to the guys on either side of you....which may not be the worst thing ever....this place is full of trash and looks like crap.....so fire away.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliperoo View Post
    ...it's easy to talk tough, but the fact is that if any one of you shoots someone in your home...unless you can prove with 100% certainty that they were acutely and directly attempting to kill you or your family members, you will be living the next 25 to life in an orange jumpsuit and picking up trash on the side of my road chained to the guys on either side of you....which may not be the worst thing ever....this place is full of trash and looks like crap.....so fire away.
    you might be right. should that occur all of us may very well be serving some of or the rest of our lives in jail. but it will be the first crime most of us are on record as having commited, and we will be alive, and our families will be alive. I'd say 25 to life is worth it.

    There's a saying involving types of people, it goes to say that there are only 3 kinds of people. the first kind is 90% of the population world wide. This group is too weak, believe themselves to be too morally sound, or are just plain too ignorant of the reality's of the world to take precautions against the dangers of the world or even defend themselves. These people are your rape victims, the dead people being mentioned on tonights daily news, the neighbor whose house got robbed while he was in it. This group is known as prey.

    9% of the population that isn't prey are those who see the opportunity to gain from prey, to feed from prey and forcibly take what it wants from prey, usually just forms of livelihood, but up to and including the prey's life. This group is known as the predators.

    Mathematically speaking there is now only 1% left. This all too small group of people are those among the world who refuse to be either, who by one means or many means refuses to be prey, but, despite having all of the capabilities of being a predator, refuses to exist at such a base level of humanity. They are those who come running when they hear a scream, a cry for help, they are those who run into a burning building when help hasn't yet arisen, they are those who defend themselves, kinfolk and livelihoods, as well as their neighbors', they may be preyed upon by an unsavi predator, but the predator will likely regret his choice of lifestyle. This group refuses to turn a blind eye to the world, as it refuses to be a part of a system that practically caters towards predators. This group has many names. They are Patriots, they are hero's, riflemen and pistoleers, law abiding citizens, or this nations first and last line of defense. This forum's member's are mostly of this class.

  8. #28
    js's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliperoo View Post
    this place is full of trash and looks like crap...
    are you trying to get banned...? seriously...
    "bing bang boom! hair out...hamburger time" - William Murderface

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliperoo View Post
    ...it's easy to talk tough, but the fact is that if any one of you shoots someone in your home...unless you can prove with 100% certainty that they were acutely and directly attempting to kill you or your family members, you will be living the next 25 to life in an orange jumpsuit and picking up trash on the side of my road chained to the guys on either side of you....which may not be the worst thing ever....this place is full of trash and looks like crap.....so fire away.
    You are either assuming knowledge or misinformed. For instance, in Colorado, if a person makes entry into yiour residence you can exercise deadly force without a "duty to retreat" without criminal prosecution. It's called the "Make my day" law. Many other states have in recent months adopted similar "castle doctrine" laws though there are some with a duty to retreat or other stipulations added upon the resident. There have also been several high profile recent cases where Texas homeowners terminated burglars while on the phone with 911 dispatchers and have not been criminally prosecuted.

    Just last week there was a burglar killed in Denver that made the news as well. Officers were in the neighborhood responding to a break in/suspected home invasion. Home alarm went off and the cops found nobody in the immediate area. They heard gunshots a short distance away and responded. A homeowner apparently killed the suspect seeking a new/quieter target. The burglar was struck several times in the head as he was attempting to crawl into a ground level window. No criminal charges have been filed on the homeowner to date.

  10. #30
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    Well there's 2 responders here that seem to rile up the membership, and justly so.

    As far as "macho responders", while we may never know what the outcome will be from the use of deadly force by one who may respond that way, it's safe to say it will be a life-sized event for that person. If he/she lives in a state or community that frowns on a persons right to self defense that event may be catastrophic. Perhaps the proud and self-assured individual protected his own life or his loved one's only to find he should have retreated to a slobbering candyass begging for his life in hopes that the obligatory 911 call was answered. Prosecution of such an action should be followed with a public outcry that gets international attention, and perhaps surely has in the past. How nice would "shangri-la" be to live in? All love and help and smiles 24/7. Not happening. I can't answer how I'd feel about taking a life as I've never been faced with the choice and never want to face it. I want shangri-la just like everyone. Faced with the choice, I'm certain I could and sleep well. It's not macho, it's a trust in one's rational mind to be able to do the right thing when that thing happens. In my house without an invitation in the wee hours would surely be met with the intent and follow up of deadly force. Nothing to prove in that scenario. I don't stand ready eager for an invasion, I don't ever discount the fact that it may happen. I keep noisy dogs as an alert, I keep loaded firearms within easy reach.

    To biathlete, there's so much more to self defense that Moore could never explain in any feature film and appears to not have the desire to show both sides, frankly in anything he does. I've seen them all and have pulled from them onesy-twosy things that make sense. His goal is to flame up those who think like him. I'll never deny how well researched his work is to be able to show what he does but the other side is missing. There's NOTHING he's ever done to support the common denominator you'd find in a forum like this. This IS a forum of responsible enthusiasts willing to defend themselves with that which they're enthusiastic about, firearms. Personally I love em. I like way more than I can afford. I feel great after a range visit. I feel confident in my ability and choice of gun. I feel like I'm part of a patriotic society that supports my right to SD and gun ownership. I feel proud of my wife who joins me in those visits, but will always worry if she'll freeze for 1 second too long. We're not all Harry Calahns or Martin Riggs, we're Americans who believe and practice our 2nd amendment rights. We're also not too different from any other enthusiast who collects and appreciates things mechanical or artistic. I feel that the responsibility and accountability that follows gun ownership is something to be admired and respected rather than chastized and insulted.


    For the record, there was one thing in "...Columbine" that thought was right on and from all the possible people, it didn't come from Moore. When asked, "What would you tell kids today?" of Marilyn Manson, he responded with "I wouldn't tell them anything, I'd listen." In context, that made perfect sense to me.

  11. #31
    helodriver is offline Junior Member
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    mtn.shooter - I'll answer your question - No. Just like 99.9% of all non-LEO gun carriers. Everyone has their own idea on when they'd use their weapon. Bottom line is that we'd all have to live with our decision, as it should be.

  12. #32
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    I've been living with my grandma out in the country, and break-ins have been happening like crazy around there since it's all elderly people with four-wheelers, tractors, and guns around the house. My grandma has taken to locking her door for the first time since she's lived there. So when the dog goes ballistic at 3 in the morning, I'm not walking to the door with nothing but a smile, if you catch my drift.

    As far as our gun grabbing friends like mike moore and other yahoos go, I'd be willing to bet they have security/body guards that carry those same "assualt weapons" that they are trying to condemn. FOr the public to have it is horrible, but for them, just as for most elitist arrogant jerks, they're special, and "need" the protection "more" than us.

  13. #33
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    And in response to the muscle flexor comment...I'd like to think I look better in orange behind bars, then in a suit in a wooden box.

  14. #34
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    Thumbs up

    Gentlemen and I mean gentlemen, you handled this situation quite well. I am proud of each and everyone of you. Thank you all for being part of this forum and this thread. Some forums would have gotten totally out of control, when a couple of tweety birds like Biathelete and fliperoo try to rile the members. This forum by far has the most level headed, educated men and women. I can not praise you people enough and to the tweety birds,Michael Moore, Biathelete and fliperoo this is for you

  15. #35
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    Thumbs up Just wow

    First of all, Thank You Zhurdan...as your response was dead on. The trolls who posted their rediculous gibberish just need an education. Ignorance is one thing, but stupid is completely different. It is fairly obvious that we are dealing with both...

    In my opinion, on the original question, I will be prepared for any threat that comes to my family, my property, or myself. I will do everything in my power to stop said threat. If all that I have to do is ready myself to fire a weapon, then great. If I don't have to take a life I would say that is a positive thing. At the same time, I don't go around planning to pull my gun, AKA Brandish, to "scare off threats" or intimidate. Long story short = I will do the least possible to stop the threat.

    As said before, I think you all handled the trolls very well.

  16. #36
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    As a recently retired LEO, I've drawn my sidearm many times. More importantly, I've answered many 911 calls in the Detroit area. So many people believe they will be 'allowed' to use their phone during a home invasion, robbery, etc.
    The average self-defence shooting begins and ends within 6 seconds. In such cases, "someone" eventually calls 911 and LE arrives in time to secure the scene, collect the body, and begin the investigation.
    The BGs actually know about 'phones' and do not allow their victims to make calls before being raped, robbed, mutilated and/or killed.
    Too often, I've arrived after women [and men] have been raped, spouses and/or children killed/maimed/kidnapped, etc.

    Times changed in the U.S., forever, when crack cocaine was introduced into the public... and we can't go back. Then came the big surprise of Meth. Now are the days of the criminal psychotic.

    Bottom line is, if you 'decide' to draw a weapon, it MUST be with the full intent of using it... or suffer the consequences. Many good people have suffered horrible consequences before realizing that EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN PERSONAL SAFETY.

  17. #37
    mtn.shooter is offline Junior Member
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    This thread has been very interesting to me. Here are some of my take aways.
    Bad guys exist everywhere and can strike at any time but you are most likely to have to defend your life in your own home.
    I can mitigate most of the danger OUTSIDE of my home by being smart, vigilant, preventative and proactive. Avoid hot spots whenever possible.
    My home is the place that I am most willing to use deadly force.
    Using deadly force in my home will certainly meet w/ legalities, but more likely to be deemed necessary.
    Brandishing is an option used by the foolhardy.
    Open carry MAY prevent a "situation" but more likely will lead to fear, judgment and conversations I wish not to have.
    I will keep up w/ this thread and continue to learn. Thanks for the input all!

  18. #38
    onebigelf is offline Junior Member
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    Time to get my feet wet.

    The best advice I can give you on this topic is what was given to me.

    "If you are going to carry a gun, the first that someone should know of it in a "situation" is that sudden pain in their chest...
    Never think of a gun as a "magic wand" to be pulled out and waved in the air to make a problem disappear. If you have to draw you have to shoot, or you shouldn't have drawn in the first place."

    I've always felt like that was pretty good advice.

    John

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn.shooter View Post
    My wife and I discuss guns often. She is fine w/ them as fun, plinking, sport or hunting, but is afraid of SD purposes as she feels drawing a pistol may/will escalate the problem. My opinion is that the situation needs to be dire before I draw and leveling a weapon MAY disperse the tension w/o shots fired. Now I am beginning to doubt myself as I figure if I need to come to bear, lead is flying. I am comfortable w/ defending myself and my property w/ lethal force. I am asking w/ all due respect and discretion, how many of you have had to come to bear and NOT have to fire a round? I am not sure if I phrased my question well, but I wonder how many times "I have a gun"..."I will shoot you"..."got out of my house or I will shoot you" works in lieu of lead.
    Not legally allowed to conceal carry in my state, but I have had situations where strange people have come to the door late at night (10pm). I came to the door with my Springfield Loaded in my hand and they turned around and left. There's some dog next door (pit bull) that always gets wild and out of control any time we mow the lawn. The owner says it doesn't bite. But it has nipped at my neighbor before. Well the other day it's out running around and comes across and is nipping at my dad and the owner comes out and says "don't worry it doesn't bite." Well a good friend of the family got mauled by a Rottweiler a while back on his bicycle and the owner of that dog said it didn't bite too. If that dog crosses into my yard and starts biting my mom or dad, I don't know whether I should shoot it, wrestle it off, or just wait until it goes away and then press charges later.

    I think if it was biting and I thought it was going to kill someone, I would fire. Otherwise, I'd call the authorities and then try to wrestle it off and hold it down.

    ---------
    Not to get too off topic, but a friend of mine who lives in another state (we went to school together) carries a concealed weapon and thought someone was following him late one night. Person walks up and says give me your wallet, well my buddy flashes his gun at this guy and the guy takes off running. Sometimes the sight of a gun scares people off. On another forum, someone said they were in some store while there was a robbery and had their hand on their gun, safety off, drew but never had to fire. The guy dropped his gun and the cops showed up and asked for his CCW license.

  20. #40
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    ?

    Hogger,

    I get what you are saying but how is that related to this thread?

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