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  1. #1
    Brydawg's Avatar
    Brydawg is offline Junior Member
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    Passive Safety...

    This thread was inspired by Supra001 in the Tactics and Techniques Forum.

    Thread : "How prepared is your semi-auto for HD"
    How prepared is your semi-auto for HD?
    Quote Originally Posted by supra001
    "In my instance, I have the S&W M&P 9mm without a thumb safety, so my dilemma is how far do I take my "readiness"; clipped and chambered, clipped only, or simply the pistol with clip nearby. I can't fully get past not having a thumb safety(yet). It has what's considered a passive safety, only released with the travel of the trigger during shooting, but still it seems a bit odd to me, partially because this is my first semi-auto and I've been used to the revolvers"

    This has been in my mind since I bought the gun.
    I'm not really sure just how much faith to put into this Passive safety.
    Can any of you guys that have a lot of experience with Semi-auto and Passive Safety's explain more about this type of safety.

    I'll be taking my CPL course on April 24th and will most likely get the answer to this question, but in the meantime, maybe you guys here at HGF can put my mind at ease ( and perhaps some others too )
    Last edited by bruce333; 03-13-2010 at 12:05 PM. Reason: clarify quoted material, added link

  2. #2
    Hiram25 is offline Member
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    Hi Brydawg,

    I just purchased my SA XD-40 SC which has two (pasisve) safeties, the grip safety which is released when you grip the weapon and the trigger safety which is released as the first portion of trigger pull. I'm not familiar with the M&P but if I only had the one safey on the trigger I would probably not keep one in the chamber. I feel ok since both safeties have to be released before the weapon goes bang and I don't put my finger on the bang switch until I'm ready to fire. If you have both the grip safety and the trigger safety you should be ok to keep one in the pipe. Don't know if this will help or not?

  3. #3
    Brydawg's Avatar
    Brydawg is offline Junior Member
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    As far as I know, the M&P doesn't have the grip safety.
    I just don't like the fact of knowing that if theres one in the pipe, it only takes a pull of the trigger to send the bullet.
    I plan on carrying this gun in the future. If I don't have a round chambered, it isn't going to be much good to me if I have to react fast. I realize it only takes a second or two to chamber a round, but in a life or death situation, seconds count.

  4. #4
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    dosborn is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    Think about this guys, if you are "gripping" the gun the grip safety would be disengaged. That would only leave the trigger anyway. Keep your booger hook out of the guard and all should be good. Just pay close attention to what you are doing. Also, you should have the proper holster that covers the entire guard, at least.

    Some people will never be comfortable carrying in that condition. It's up to you. Get to know the weapon and practice safety and technique and it may become a non-issue. I carry a G27 daily and have no worries. Actually, the only time it ever leaves the holster is to get shot or a cleaning, thankfully. I got over molesting my carry weapon months ago.

  5. #5
    Hiram25 is offline Member
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    Dosborn is probably correct, especially about the holster to cover the trigger & guard, don't want it going off while your tying your shoes.

  6. #6
    Brydawg's Avatar
    Brydawg is offline Junior Member
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    I think I'll look into a good IWB. That should alleviate most of my concerns. I have a Nylon Blackhawk IWB Holster, but the integrity of it leaves a lot to be desired.

  7. #7
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Get yourself a set of snap caps (good to have for dry fire practice) and put one in the chamber. Carry all day or even for a few days at home and see how many times the gun "goes off". If you have a quality holster that covers the trigger, you're not playing with the gun/trigger, and if you practice drawing without putting your finger in the guard, the odds are going to be that your answer will be "zero".

    All manual safeties are a poor substitute for the two God gave you; your brain and your index finger. Use both wisely and you'll be fine to carry with one in the chamber.

  8. #8
    Brydawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Get yourself a set of snap caps (good to have for dry fire practice) and put one in the chamber. Carry all day or even for a few days at home and see how many times the gun "goes off". If you have a quality holster that covers the trigger, you're not playing with the gun/trigger, and if you practice drawing without putting your finger in the guard, the odds are going to be that your answer will be "zero".

    All manual safeties are a poor substitute for the two God gave you; your brain and your index finger. Use both wisely and you'll be fine to carry with one in the chamber.
    Thanks Todd,
    Thats the best advise I've received so far. A 2 fer 1 if you will. I'll pick some up today.

  9. #9
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    gmaske is offline Senior Member
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    Angry Clips & Magazines......There is a diffrence!!!!

    Education Time.....
    Clips are strips of metal that hold your ammo until you use them to strip in to an internal magazine. Magazines hold your ammo in a block like structure and are inserted in to the pistol and the pistol strips the cartridges one at a time as the pistol cycles.
    STRIPPER CLIP!


    MAGAZINE!!!


    I'm not bashing here just trying to get you folks to use the right terms.
    PLEASE!!!!!!

    (I know I'm wasting my time here cause NOBODY LISTENS.....BUT IT DIIVES ME NUTS!!!)

  10. #10
    johnr is offline Member
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    After fifty or more years without owning a hand gun, I recently bought two! Wanting to be a safe and conciencios gun owner, I now gave my CCP and visit the range often. When I first got the gun, I would unload. The mag from the gun and store the gun separetly. As I got use to shooting and feel more comfortable having a loaded gun around knowing what it takes to make it go boom. Now after a year or more of ownership, the guns are stored in the safe, fully loaded, one in the chamber and saftey off.

    I do not cc but think familiarity would allow me to carry similar, my fn9 does not have a saftey except a long trigger pull in da mode.

    Ymmv
    John

  11. #11
    Freedom's Avatar
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    +1 to Johnr

    When I first bought my HK I was a bit "intimidated" with the idea of keeping a loaded gun in the house. Up to this point I had only owned shotguns and rifles and they were all stored unloaded and the ammo was obviously separate from the cased long guns. As I became more familiar with handling my HK I, also, became more comfortable having a loaded clip...err, magazine near my handgun. After a few weeks of regular shooting and handling the handgun during cleaning sessions I became comfortable enough to keep the gun in my bedroom with the magazine loaded, but not in the gun (it just didn't feel right to have a loaded gun - from years of storing long guns out of site and out of reach I guess). A few weeks later I felt comfortable to load the magazine and chamber a round. The first night I stowed the handgun loaded felt awkward...but now, I sleep like a baby knowing I can quickly gain access to a loaded weapon should the need arise. I think the more comfortable you become with the long pull of the first trigger action on a DA/SA the more safe the gun truly becomes. That first pull is going to be with intent to shoot if it's going to go bang.

    Obviously you want to store the loaded handgun in a safe place and away from easy access of anyone but yourself (a gun safe is an excellent accessory).

    Like they say, if you get into an encounter where a loaded gun is needed and you have an unloaded weapon - you might as well be holding a brick.

  12. #12
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    cougartex is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnr View Post
    After fifty or more years without owning a hand gun, I recently bought two! Wanting to be a safe and conciencios gun owner, I now gave my CCP and visit the range often. When I first got the gun, I would unload. The mag from the gun and store the gun separetly. As I got use to shooting and feel more comfortable having a loaded gun around knowing what it takes to make it go boom. Now after a year or more of ownership, the guns are stored in the safe, fully loaded, one in the chamber and saftey off.

    I do not cc but think familiarity would allow me to carry similar, my fn9 does not have a saftey except a long trigger pull in da mode.

    Ymmv
    John

    Well said.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dosborn View Post
    Keep your booger hook out of the guard and all should be good. Just pay close attention to what you are doing. Also, you should have the proper holster that covers the entire guard, at least.
    Universal rule of weapons numero tres (us navy)-
    3. Keep your finger straight and along the receiver until ready to fire.

    (in case anyone is wondering of the other ones)

    1. Always assume the weapon is loaded.
    2. Never point the weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
    4. Keep the weapon on safe until ready to fire. (we train to go from safe to fire after upholstering and as you are pushing your hands and the handgun out towards the target and creating a sight picture. )

    these don't apply to all weapons, and are not laws of any kind, but abide by them to the best of your ability and you should have utter confidence in yourself carrying in condition one (round in chamber).

  14. #14
    Teuthis is offline Member
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    I think the safest semi-auto pistols for citizen CCW carry are the models with de-cocker safeties. They provide an additional margin of safety which citizens need. Despite the opinions of so many "experts" on these forums, who have no actual experience in using firearms in a crisis, most citizens cannot drill enough to be completely reliable as to the safety issue.

    Law enforement personnel carry their weapons more openly, in specifically designed hoslters. They train and quailfy with their weapons frequently; and they train in crisis scenarios. Most citizens do not.

    If you want secure and safe pistols that are also accurate and reliable, try the Smith and Wesson and Beretta models that have de-cocker safeties. There are probably others out there too. There is nothing at all less effective about revolvers either for self defense.

  15. #15
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    ...
    Like they say, if you get into an encounter where a loaded gun is needed and you have an unloaded weapon - you might as well be holding a brick.

    Not sure who "they" are...but the object it to NOT get yourself into any situation that requires the "Shootout at the OK Corral". Trust me in the FACT that LONG before I NEED to pull my weapon....its already OUT and a round is in the chamber....whether it was already in there or not.

  16. #16
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brydawg View Post
    This thread was inspired by Supra001 in the Tactics and Techniques Forum.

    Thread : "How prepared is your semi-auto for HD"
    How prepared is your semi-auto for HD?



    This has been in my mind since I bought the gun.
    I'm not really sure just how much faith to put into this Passive safety.
    Can any of you guys that have a lot of experience with Semi-auto and Passive Safety's explain more about this type of safety.

    I'll be taking my CPL course on April 24th and will most likely get the answer to this question, but in the meantime, maybe you guys here at HGF can put my mind at ease ( and perhaps some others too )
    If Supra 001 wanted a safety..why did he buy the model that CAME WITH ONE? My MP has one...which is what I preferred.

  17. #17
    Teuthis is offline Member
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    Right on, Sully. If one finds oneself in a situation where a quick draw is absolutely necessary, it is too late. At the OK Corral, Earp had is revolver out of his pocket before the action started. He didn't even carry it in a holster.

    Observing what is going on around you, and staying in condition yellow, that means alert, when you are out in public, counts a lifetime more than being taken by surpise and having a fast draw. I like to have my handgun is fire ready condition. As an armed citizen, if I am carrying a semi-auto, I want a safety for that extra level of protection for myself and others.

  18. #18
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmaske View Post
    Education Time.....
    Clips are strips of metal that hold your ammo until you use them to strip in to an internal magazine. Magazines hold your ammo in a block like structure and are inserted in to the pistol and the pistol strips the cartridges one at a time as the pistol cycles.
    STRIPPER CLIP!


    MAGAZINE!!!


    I'm not bashing here just trying to get you folks to use the right terms.
    PLEASE!!!!!!

    (I know I'm wasting my time here cause NOBODY LISTENS.....BUT IT DIIVES ME NUTS!!!)
    Magazine....Clip....Ive even heard them referred to as "sticks" by old timers that carried sub machine guns on WWII. No big deal.!! When your hip deep in slop in some foxhole and you tell your buddy to toss you a clip of ammo.....he isnt going to sit there and whine .." All Ive got is magazines".....

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