Originally Posted by LDisAwesome

I've noticed a lot of people hate .22 pistols as a weapon to carry. I personally don't plan to carry any kind of gun, just want to use it for plinking, but a lot of people love to hate on them. I find it ironic though because a .22 pistol is actually the preferred weapon of choice for a professional mafia hitman and the CIA loves the use of the .22 pistol. This is because the .22 is really the only caliber that can be sufficiently silenced and it still has plenty of power to kill a man. I figure if pro mafia hit man and the CIA like them so much why does everyone else hate on them? Just an interesting topic for debate.

Because when you're two inches from your non-moving, sleeping, unaware target doesn't know that you're about to pop them it's a little easier. As for the mob and CIA I seem to recall that the mob still favored machine guns and the "you don't see me here" guys I didn't see in Iraq we're still carrying ARs/AKs and service pistols.

Ask yourself this, if the .22 is soooooo good for ___________ why doesn't the Military issue them as rifles and sidearms, why don't the police do it either?Think of the savings in ammo budgets if they were to go .22 and the ease in shooting them, but they still don't use it. I wonder why?

Sure a .22 will kill some one, but it less likely to do it quickly.

Add to that that rim-fire pistols can be ammo sensitive, the ammo itself is known for high failure rates.

Edited to add, when something still has trouble killing rabbits and squirrels, I'll leave it at home when carrying for defense against two legged threats.

I won't disagree that once you get out to a distance it does become less effective, but when do you plan on getting mugged from 30 yds out?

Also, i've seen bunnies survive 12 gauge blasts and deer run for hundreds of yards after a 30 ot 6 yet i'm sure either would be sufficient to bring down a man. More times than not it isn't the caliber but the aim.

In order to be assured of instantly shutting down a human sized life form with a .22 pistol, you would have to make a perfect shot to the golf ball sized medulla oblongata, or maybe to the spinal cord, or maybe another place or two, if you get lucky. The only certain way to do that is probably going to be from point-blank range, on an unsuspecting 'victim.' That could hardly be considered self defense, and the purpose of concealed carry laws is to allow a person to defend himself, as a last resort.

It is possible, maybe even likely, that a determined attacker could absorb several .22 shots to the torso, and still cut you from stem to stern, and cram the empty gun upyour...well, you get the idea. He might die from the wounds, but maybe not before you.

Originally Posted by LDisAwesome

Also, i've seen bunnies survive 12 gauge blasts and deer run for hundreds of yards after a 30 ot 6 yet i'm sure either would be sufficient to bring down a man. More times than not it isn't the caliber but the aim.

Sure and people have survived .44 magnum rounds to the head, but that doesn't mean that we should carry the smallest possible cartridge just because the largest can fail as well.

Handguns are "iffy" stoppers at best regardless of caliber so the odds are all ready against you, why further hamper your ability to negate a threat by carrying something that is more likely to jam, miss-fire, and not do significant damage to your attacker?

Personally, I don't plan on being mugged at all, but I would like to be prepared to address a threat any distance with something that is going to give me a higher probability of success, that being a handgun of reputable make, chambered in a "service" caliber, and loaded with premium ammunition in that caliber having tested the compatibility of all those factors including magazines if a semi-auto is the choice.

Now if we're going to talk back up guns/ultra-concealable guns, or choices for those who are infirm to the point that they can't handle anything other than a .22, I'd give a little more leeway to those inquiring about a .22 for defensive purposes, but it would never be my first choice of a primary sidearms due the size-weight-capacity ratios when compared to other options as well as the issues I mentioned above.

It is not broken out by caliber, nor is it given in a percentage, but on the NRA site they give some stats regarding self defense. The number of reported armed citizen self defense responses for a year was around 4000, and the number of fatalities was around 20-30. I wish I could find the link- I was just reading it yesterday! They were not making any points at all about choice of caliber, but were rather going in an entirely different direction.

My point is that if the success rate is that small with " service", and accepted self defense calibers, why handicap yourself with something that will only work if everything is absolutely perfect?

There is not anyone on this board worth my wife getting hurt over, and there is damn sure nobody kicking in my door at 3 am worth it. If I ever have to protect her I will only get one chance to succeed. You can rest assured it will be with the biggest caliber I feel proficient with! There are enough variables that I cannot control, for me to knowingly add yet another to the list.

JMO

ETA- I am not a hater- I have 3 .22 pistols, and shoot them frequently. I have yet to, nor do I ever expect to saddle one up as a primary defense weapon.

Video games are to blame for this.

Great for plinking, not so good for defense, but better than nothing.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here but a .22lr will most likely not leave an exit wound and will bounce around internally causing damage while a larger caliber could go through the intended target and cause damage to another target whether that target is a threat or not.

Originally Posted by LDisAwesome

I'm just playing devil's advocate here but a .22lr will most likely not leave an exit wound and will bounce around internally causing damage while a larger caliber could go through the intended target and cause damage to another target whether that target is a threat or not.

Yeah, but meanwhile, the 300 pound meth-head is disassembling you with a butter knife or pounding your head into jello, because he doesn't know that he's going to bleed out in 5 minutes or so.

Shoot him a few times with a .45 and he might pay attention to your concerns.

Originally Posted by LDisAwesome

I'm just playing devil's advocate here but a .22lr will most likely not leave an exit wound and will bounce around internally causing damage

Unless it doesn't...it could just lodge in a bone and not do squat, if doesn't hit bone, what's it going to bounce off of? Not to mention that it might not even penetrate enough to hit bone.

while a larger caliber could go through the intended target and cause damage to another target whether that target is a threat or not.

That's a reason to use expanding hollow points, to lessen the possibility of over penetration.

Originally Posted by LDisAwesome

I'm just playing devil's advocate here but a .22lr will most likely not leave an exit wound and will bounce around internally causing damage while a larger caliber could go through the intended target and cause damage to another target whether that target is a threat or not.

The use of modern proper/tested SD ammo is less likely to go through and damage other targets because it is designed to expand and spread the energy. If you are using FMJ for SD then it is more likely to penetrate completely through the intended target.

A 22 isn't going to bounce around too far. A .223 will. IIRC, the .223 is favored because it takes 2-3 people to take care of a wounded soldier vs. 0 people to take care of a dead soldier. Not because it is lethal.

The goal (god forbid you have to) is to displace the most amount of flesh/tissue/organs as possible to stop the threat ASAP.

We all love 22's, just not for SD.

Originally Posted by Bisley

Yeah, but meanwhile, the 300 pound meth-head is disassembling you with a butter knife or pounding your head into jello, because he doesn't know that he's going to bleed out in 5 minutes or so.

Shoot him a few times with a .45 and he might pay attention to your concerns.

just saying...but i'm 99.99% sure that if there was a 300 pound meth-head with a butter knife I could easily out run him

Originally Posted by LDisAwesome

just saying...but i'm 99.99% sure that if there was a 300 pound meth-head with a butter knife I could easily out run him

A chance not worth taking.

< I'll be exiting this discussion stage left in search of reality lol

I think everyone pretty much covered the reasons as to why it isn't a preferred carry round...

Better than nothing but definately not what I am grabbing in the middle of the night, or carrying concealed. Maybe in my boot or glovebox as backup.

Originally Posted by LDisAwesome

just saying...but i'm 99.99% sure that if there was a 300 pound meth-head with a butter knife I could easily out run him

You watch too much TV. Hollywood movies and TV are not like the real world, It really, really isn't.
A round that will be used for SD has to be able to stop an attacker from attacking his victim.reliably, consistently. Can you kill someone with a .22? Yes,but it is simply not powerful enough to do it .reliably, consistently. . As has been observed above, the object is not to kill, but to stop an attack, if your attacker dies as a result of his violent attack, well, he knew the job was dangerous when he took it.

I personally have a 22 and love it for what it is...I am one of those gun owners that actually likes to shoot, and shoot alot...I go to the range at least once a week and go through 5-800 rounds a week, and having a nice 22 is a great money saver...I have no intentions of using it for self defense or ever carrying it, just look at the pic and you will know why....I leave that to my Glock loaded with Speer hollowpoints to handle that..I wanted something to save a bit of money with and still have fun shooting, and it definitely does that...the thing is scary accurate and I have put almost 1000 rounds through it with just one fte with bulk amo....even with the crappy stuff I can put 2-300 rounds through it and it fires every time....my brother told me a while back that he loved his 22 as much as his other guns, and I thought he was insane...but if you try a nice one and see how much fun it can be you may change your mind...


Plus you have to admit that even though its not the best pic, thats one sexy gun, makes my g26 feel pretty ugly

Just about everything makes a g26 look ugly

J/K Monster, thats a nice shooter you have there.

Originally Posted by LDisAwesome

just saying...but i'm 99.99% sure that if there was a 300 pound meth-head with a butter knife I could easily out run him

And what if the 300 pound meth head has a 9mm with 20 rounds at his disposal? You going to run away with your .22 tucked in your panties?

Originally Posted by falchunt

Just about everything makes a g26 look ugly J/K Monster, thats a nice shooter you have there.

theres no doubt about that! although I think its good looking in its own way, kinda like a bulldog

People had been known using a 22 but that was in a case of being right up against it's target. The good old behind the ear thing. A 22 loses way too much of it's power way too soon to be an effective weapon for defense. Yes ia guess it has offensive uses but I'm pretty sure no one reading this thread will have a use for those kind of tactics. So we lean to weapons that can travel over 10 yards and get through clothing etc as well as the intended target.

This thread reminded me is a pretty scary night in a bar in Cincinnati Ohio. Two guys got into a fight and had both pulled out a weapon. At first glance it appeared like one guy missed and the other had a head wound. I didn't actually see the shooting being when I seen the but of one of the weapons I grabbed my friend and went to the floor in hopes of not making the news. But after they had fired a scuffle started and the two were held for police. Come to find out the guy with the head wound was shot with as 25 ACP pistol. The other was hit with as 22. The 25 round literally glanced off the one guys bald head! The round was later recovered (by police) in the ceiling. The other was hit in the shoulder but the round didn't make it through the guys coat and other clothing. He was hit with a 22 round that was recovered from inside his coat. He had a pretty funky bruise but was going to live. These two were about 18-20 feet apart when they fired.

Now I'm not saying that will always be the case with weapons like this. But I had seen this with my own eyes. So it can happen. Neither of these weapons were made to be used in the way they where. The term belly gun is what I think about when I see any of those little pocket 22 & 25ACP weapons. Usually people stuck them in the belly or ribs and fired. or the behind the ear thing we talked about earlier. I blame video games and Hollywood for a lot of what people think those lite things can do. Sure they can be very dangerous and I am not going to step in front of one any time soon. But I'm not going to trust my life to one. Being many times the intended victim is in a defensive position they just are not practical.

I did once kill a raccoon with a Rolm (RG) 25 ACP shot at around 15 feet. But it was a really lucky shot. It just so happened I was doing some work top one I had and had just put it back together. I was going top head out to check it out when the outlaw coon was seen in my trash. in broad daylight! It still run about 30 feet before it fell. And I was really lucky it didn't think to come running at me. A hurt bore coon can be a real handful. Especially when you are the one that hurt them

So I guess I'll stick to my 40's and 45's Being I am not a Hollywood hit man or work for some shady government agency as a loose cannon with a heart of gold.

I do have a couple 22's I like to shoot though. You wont have more fun with 20 bucks and a couple 22's. That 20 will supply ammo for a weekend!

Is a .22 effective as a concealed weapon? Reason I ask is because ill be getting my CHL soon and thats currently what I own, I assume that it will do damage but would it be enough to stop an attacker. Assume im using Hollow points.