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  1. #1
    Handgun World's Avatar
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    Carrying a gun is serious business...

    Carrying a gun is a duty, and obligation and should be taken very seriously…and why?...because it's serious business.

    I carry a gun whenever it is legal.

    I’ve heard of people saying…that when they enter the home or place of business of someone they don't know, they will inform them they are armed, and ask them if they would prefer that they not carry a gun while there. Not me, I don’t subscribe to this theory. I don’t look for trouble, but trouble may find me and I’m not taking any chances.

    A lot of people ask me "Why do you carry a gun, do you expect trouble?"

    No, I carry a gun not because I expect trouble, but because I can. If I was expecting trouble I'd carry a 12ga.

    The practice of carrying a weapon is a clear assertion that I am a man. By that I'm not talking about macho crap. By saying I am a man, I mean that I am an adult, responsible for my actions, and willing to accept the consequences of my actions.

    When you carry a gun you have in your hands (or on your hip), the ability to end any man's life. This is a massive responsibility, second only to that of raising children.

    Many people are uncomfortable with that responsibility. They believe that they can't be trusted with it, nor should anyone else. They fall back on saying "the police" or "the government" should take care of that. Someone with special training, and the blessings of the state should be responsible, but not me, or you, or anyone else.

    This kind of thinking says plain and simply… "I am immature, and I cannot to be trusted".

    When I carry a gun, I accept the fact that I may kill someone. I don't ever plan on doing it, I hope it doesn't happen, but it might. I am prepared for this possibility, and I accept the consequences should it happen and you should too.

    Don't leave home without it and stay safe,
    Bob

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  3. #2
    sliponby is offline Junior Member
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    I'm with you Bob. I tell very few people that I carry a gun. And yes, it is an awesome responsibility and should be given the utmost thought and consideration by anyone choosing to take on this undertaking. I look at it as a philosophy and your post pretty much sums it up, for me at least.

    I was once asked by a neighbor who owns long guns and hanguns but never carries on his person (occasionally a revolver in the glove compartment), "you don't want to shoot somebody do you?" To which I replied, 'not unless they force me to'. The last thing any sane gun owner wants is to be put in the position to have to draw their weapon to defend their life. No one prays harder for peace than the soldier.

  4. #3
    Handgun World's Avatar
    Handgun World is offline Junior Member
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    sliponby, thanks. I really like this comment " No one prays harder for peace than the soldier."

    Here's a story that happened to me.
    __________________________________________________ ______
    OK, here's a story about what happened to me recently. I was at a family gathering last year for a not so happy event. Things got pretty tense and some family members started getting very belligerent to say the least.

    Ahead of time, I told one of them I was carrying. When things got out of control another family member went for his gun in his bedroom (he told several that's what he was going to do.) His intended target was me. He obviously had an issue with me that he couldn't work out in his own mind.

    During this episode, someone called 911 and told them there was a man in the house that had a gun. They were talking about the homeowner (who I just mentioned was going for his gun.) When the police arrived they began questioning and the person who knew I was carrying told the cops I was carrying a gun (Kahr PM9 by the way.) Needless to say, I got grilled by the police. I was carrying legally and the gun NEVER LEFT MY HOLSTER. But the cops got the wrong message. The original caller of 911 was referring to the tirade of the homeowner (who didn't know I was carrying) and not me.

    It ended OK, I was asked to leave, which I gladly did and the cops hung around until emotions cooled down. I never went back there again and never will. But I will say this. Moral of the story...NEVER tell anyone you're carrying. They don't need to know.

    This is what can happen if someone knows you're carrying. My advice, don't tell.
    __________________

  5. #4
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    +1 on all that has been said this thread so far. Stay safe everyone

  6. #5
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    Very well said, HW. I too take that responsibility seriously.

    One thing not oft said is that those who don't carry assume that someone else has a large part of that responsibility. My idiot-liberal bro-in-law (who recently returned to the left coast of Kalifornication) harrased me for being stupid enough to believe my personal safety was my responsibility! Oh well...I no longer consider him part of the family.

  7. #6
    Redwolf's Avatar
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    I will add that I can only think of three ways to protect yourself and you family.
    1. Active, IE using your brain, carrying a gun.
    2. Relying on Police.
    3. Prayer or Luck.
    I first one relies on you to protect yourself and family, its your responsibility
    The second relies on the police to do it for them, which that isn’t their job and yes the courts said so. And the last you rely on faith or luck that it will never happen to you. If you chose one of the last two I wish you all the best of luck.

  8. #7
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    I rely on prayer...

    ...every morning when I put my .45 in my belt, I pray that I won't need it and that I won't miss if I do...and there is no luck...those of us who carry all the time have simply realized that we can count on ourselves...others who don't carry or carry when the mood strikes them or they "feel" like it might be good to carry today...well, different folks see things differently...for myself, I took an oath when I joined the Corps...another when I became a cop...both over 35 years ago...and when I pulled the pin...the hole never healed...and I still believe in fighting evil to protect my loved ones and yours...

    ...oh, I forgot the police...they're the guys that come after the party to clean up...and that ain't their fault...they're only human...it takes minutes to get there when seconds count...

  9. #8
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    I hope I don't get flamed for saying this, but...I don't carry concealed and have some certain theories on this. 1.)I don't go anywhere that will make me feel "unsafe" unless I'm carrying a weapon. 2.) If I am going anywhere that I feel I might need a weapon, I will put my weapon in the car [which is legal in my state], or 3.) Carry it open and exposed [again, legal in my state]...but knowing that if I am carrying a weapon I'm probably somewhere that I might need a weapon which brings me back to point number one, never go anywhere that will make me feel unsafe.
    On the lighter points of the subject, I'll bet my neighbor's all think I'm crazy and luckily nobody has ever called the police on me (or maybe they have and the police told them it's legal to do so) but, sometimes when I'm out in the yard doing yard-work, I carry with a USMC Pilot/Officer's Chest holster strapped right across my chest! My logic here is that I am sending a message. Here in Colorado a lot of our neighborhoods have these "walking" trails that go through the neighborhoods and lets just say that I have seen some less than honest looking people on these trails. I figure that if any one of them are "casing" houses that they are looking to break into or rob, they're more likely to choose someone else's place instead of the crazy former Marine's house who carrys weapons around with him all the time!

  10. #9
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    jfmartin-

    Take all the instances of shopping mall shootings, corner store hold ups and just plain random shootings you hear of.... none of those victims ever thought they would be anywhere where they would wish they had a gun.

    In the last 2 years, there have been a handful of public shootings within 5 miles of me. Earlier this year 2 armed robbers walked into a Walmart in Lakewood, Wa and shot an armed security guard, point blank. When I saw it on the news, all I could think was "I go in there all the time!"

    No one else was hurt in the scenario, but in the middle of the day, in one of the most crowded public places... things could have gone far different.

    If you carry, you are atleast putting your safety in your own hands. If you don't, you are leaving it up to fate.

    just something to think about.

  11. #10
    jdeere9750 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfmartin25 View Post
    I hope I don't get flamed for saying this, but...I don't carry concealed and have some certain theories on this. 1.)I don't go anywhere that will make me feel "unsafe" unless I'm carrying a weapon. 2.) If I am going anywhere that I feel I might need a weapon, I will put my weapon in the car [which is legal in my state], or 3.) Carry it open and exposed [again, legal in my state]...but knowing that if I am carrying a weapon I'm probably somewhere that I might need a weapon which brings me back to point number one, never go anywhere that will make me feel unsafe.
    On the lighter points of the subject, I'll bet my neighbor's all think I'm crazy and luckily nobody has ever called the police on me (or maybe they have and the police told them it's legal to do so) but, sometimes when I'm out in the yard doing yard-work, I carry with a USMC Pilot/Officer's Chest holster strapped right across my chest! My logic here is that I am sending a message. Here in Colorado a lot of our neighborhoods have these "walking" trails that go through the neighborhoods and lets just say that I have seen some less than honest looking people on these trails. I figure that if any one of them are "casing" houses that they are looking to break into or rob, they're more likely to choose someone else's place instead of the crazy former Marine's house who carrys weapons around with him all the time!
    I'm not out to flame you, but I do want to strongly disagree. As YFZ pointed out, it's really hard to draw the line on where you feel safe, and where you may actually be safe. Just because you feel safe, you may or may not be safe. Carrying a gun doesn't necessarily ensure your safety, but it sure does go a long way towards it. I personally don't think open carrying is a great idea either. I think that takes away some of the advantage of having a gun by your side, and may actually be counter-productive on ensuring your safety. Just my thoughts. YMMV.

  12. #11
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    Feelings...

    ...can getcha killed...I won't flame anyone...I will recommend to all:

    Teeth of the Tiger...by Tom Clancy...in it is a well-written account of what can happen at the mall...especially in our times...rattlesnakes have a way of showing up where you least expect them....

  13. #12
    sliponby is offline Junior Member
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    jfmartin25. Come on now. "I hope I don't get flamed..." I had to read your post a couple of times to be certain that I was reading it right. Then I read it again to see if maybe there was some underlying meaning I may have missed.

    The chances of a person being in an encounter with an armed assailant are very slim. I don't fault you for not carrying, that is your decision and not for me to judge. But let me ask you, do you ever go to church, a community center, the mall, heck, virtually anywhere, and there could be an armed criminal confronting you. I'd imagine your thoughts might be 'I didn't think this was an unsafe place'...

    I hope to God that never happens to any of us but your reasoning and your theories leave me somewhat dismayed.

  14. #13
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    Nobody thought...

    ...that a crazy man would drive a truck into Luby's in Killeen, Tx in the middle of the day and kill 20+ people and wound I forget how many more...but he did...and the lady who had left her gun in the car to obey our law saw her parents killed that day...and got busy and got elected to the Texas House and helped get our CCW license law passed...that American Patriot can tell you: anytime...anywhere....

  15. #14
    jfmartin25's Avatar
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    "Take all the instances of shopping mall shootings, corner store hold ups and just plain random shootings you hear of.... none of those victims ever thought they would be anywhere where they would wish they had a gun." -YZFsandrider

    I guess this is personal choice for me because I rarely go to shopping malls. In fact the other day my wife and I went to the mall and we both were walking and kinda looked at each other and said, "Ya know, I honestly can't remember the last time I was here...it must be over a year ago!" Taking this into account, and considering that the mall is located directly across the street from the United States Air Force Academy...the security is tight, and the people who are shopping there are pretty conservative, and from my knowledge there hasn't been a whole bunch of crime there unless you consider juvenille deliquents who smoke cigarettes illegally when skipping school, "criminals".

    Quote Originally Posted by jdeere9750 View Post
    Carrying a gun doesn't necessarily ensure your safety, but it sure does go a long way towards it. I personally don't think open carrying is a great idea either. I think that takes away some of the advantage of having a gun by your side, and may actually be counter-productive on ensuring your safety. Just my thoughts. YMMV.
    I agree. Carrying a gun does not necessarily ensure your safety. But I would politely disagree that open carry is not a good idea. I would theroize that an armed society is a safe society and that crime would be nearly none-existant. Can you imagine if some stupid criminal walked into a 7-11 to hold it up, and then noticed that the five customers standing in line all were wearing .45's in various places. I'm willing to bet he'd rethink that one real quick!

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    ...can getcha killed...I won't flame anyone...I will recommend to all:

    Teeth of the Tiger...by Tom Clancy...in it is a well-written account of what can happen at the mall...especially in our times...rattlesnakes have a way of showing up where you least expect them....
    No offense, but Tom Clancy is a novelist. A Fiction writer;
    "Tom Clancy
    Born April 12, 1947 (1947-04-12) (age 62)
    Baltimore County, Maryland, United States
    Occupation Novelist
    Nationality American
    Writing period 1984 - 2003
    Genres Techno-thriller, Crime fiction,
    Military fiction, nonfiction" -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy

    I think we would benefit more in Clint Smith's writings, from Thunder Ranch.

    Quote Originally Posted by sliponby View Post
    The chances of a person being in an encounter with an armed assailant are very slim. I don't fault you for not carrying, that is your decision and not for me to judge. But let me ask you, do you ever go to church, a community center, the mall, heck, virtually anywhere, and there could be an armed criminal confronting you. I'd imagine your thoughts might be 'I didn't think this was an unsafe place'...

    I hope to God that never happens to any of us but your reasoning and your theories leave me somewhat dismayed.
    I understand your position. If an armed criminal ever did point his weapon at me and scream, "Gimme your wallet"...hell, I'd just hand it over. (There's never any cash in there, and the credit cards won't get him far because I'm married - which is to say, I'm always broke!)

    Look, I'm not trying to upset anyone for their personal choice of carrying concealed, which I honestly feel should be legal in every state and should be just that-personal choice. I'm just saying that I don't carry concealed, and that I have my reasons for not doing so. That doesn't make me crazy, that doesn't make me foolish, that doesn't make me any more likely than someone who does carry to be a vicitim. It just happens to be my choice that I choose not to carry concealed.

  16. #15
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfmartin25 View Post
    No offense, but Tom Clancy is a novelist. A Fiction writer;
    "Tom Clancy
    Born April 12, 1947 (1947-04-12) (age 62)
    Baltimore County, Maryland, United States
    Occupation Novelist
    Nationality American
    Writing period 1984 - 2003
    Genres Techno-thriller, Crime fiction,
    Military fiction, nonfiction" -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy

    I think we would benefit more in Clint Smith's writings, from Thunder Ranch.
    Thank you for the biography on Tom Clancy...he is one of the most fact-based writers of our time...the example stands...I am sure that Clint Smith's writings, and many other experts' writings...would agree that the scenario depicted there could very well happen...there have in fact been mall mass shootings...and that citizens being armed could have mitigated the damage even in a well-planned attack...which was the point of the example...those who've read it, know...

  17. #16
    jfmartin25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    ...there have in fact been mall mass shootings...and that citizens being armed could have mitigated the damage even in a well-planned attack...which was the point of the example...those who've read it, know...
    You missed my point entirely. And, just like my choice to carry or not to carry, I choose not to make decisions about my life based on fiction/fantasy writers' claim as to what might happen and how it could be mitigated. I did not state that mall shootings have not occured. I did not state that citizens being armed could have mitigated the damage. I simply stated that Clancy is a novelist, and the point was that I choose not to put much weight into fiction-based writings. Again, personal choice.

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    I turned on the news this morning to find that a gunman walked into a quiet coffee shop in Lakewood, Wa and shot 4 Lakewood PD officers dead. I did some remodeling in that Forza a couple years ago, and have been in there a couple times for coffee since.

    Always carry. You don't have to be in a dark back alley to be in a threatening situation.

  19. #18
    jfmartin25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    Thank you for the biography on Tom Clancy...he is one of the most fact-based writers of our time...
    -Although still a novelist, nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    the example stands...
    -For you and anyone else who believes in fiction novels. Not for me, thanks, and I'll make my own choice on what is a good example and what is not. Try not to impose your opinion on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    I am sure that Clint Smith's writings, and many other experts' writings...would agree that the scenario depicted there could very well happen...
    -Use examples, quote some writers or other authors if you can so that I am not seeing this as simply your opinion that "other experts" feel just like you do. What qualifies them as experts?

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    there have in fact been mall mass shootings...
    -I did not debate this as this is general information that all of society recognizes as fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    and that citizens being armed could have mitigated the damage even in a well-planned attack...
    -I did not debate this either, but we could by saying, "Just because any citizen is carrying, does not imply that any citizen would have mitigated the damage." In fact, we could go further to debate that some citizens may have caused further damage, because we cannot say that we can honestly know the exact outcome of every situation without taking into consideration experience and emotion of each individual who carries a weapon concealed. Everyone is different and cannot so easily fit into anyone's description as to what a person who carries a concealed weapon will actually be able, and not able to do in any given situation. To make such a ridiculous claim is stating that just because someone is carrying a concealed weapon, they are automatically qualified to take down a random shooter without causing any other collateral damage or causing any other citizen to become and innocent victim. No one can make such a claim and validate this. Not even a famous fact-based fiction writer.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    which was the point of the example...those who've read it, know...
    -Again, this is fiction no matter how "fact-based" Clancy's writings are. The only way this can be used as an example is if every person who carries a concealed weapon has the experience and emotional capacity to handle a situation like this and be able and capable of shooting the assailant without harming anyone else. Simply stated, I sincerely doubt that EVERYONE (in the emperical sense) who has a concealed weapon permit and carries would fall into this category. It is all hypothetical. I am not stating that a lot of people who have permits and carry could not perform this task, I am only stating that there are some who could not. Which invalidates your example that just anyone who has a weapon could mitigate damage in a situation like this. Therefore, it is NOT a good example and it does not stand.

  20. #19
    Redwolf's Avatar
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    Theres only one time you will ever need your weapon, The day you leave it at home.

  21. #20
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    I'm simply stating that it's my choice to carry concealed or not to. My state laws allow citizens to carry open, which is what I choose to do. I have my reasons, you have yours. Either way, neither of us is unprotected, so further debate about what would happen in "this" situation or "that", is somewhat pointless. I've got mine on my belt right now as I sit and type this in the safety of my home. If I leave the house today, it will still be there on my side.

  22. #21
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    I don't know who assigned you...

    ...the responsibility to pick apart my posts point by point and phrase by phrase and rebut each one...but I haven't seen such diligent effort expended since the last conversation I had with my ex-wife...

  23. #22
    jfmartin25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    ...the responsibility to pick apart my posts point by point and phrase by phrase and rebut each one...but I haven't seen such diligent effort expended since the last conversation I had with my ex-wife...
    Sorry to hear that you are comparing me to your ex-wife. She must be a nice lady. Just kidding. Happy Thanksgiving!

  24. #23
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    It certainly is everyone's choice whether to carry concealed or not. You should do as you like.

    I happen to believe that open carry can put you at a disadvantage in some instances.

    I do not believe that concealed carry ever puts you at a disadvantage.

    I believe that most States want you conceal carry for some very good / solid reasons.

    We've all heard those reasons - most, not all, but most States got well thought out input from LEO's / judges / law makers with a lot of experience to come up with the concealed carry position.

    Since some states allow open carry, there must be some well infomedr people that think the other way.

    Good, viva la difference - that's why they make Fords and Chevy's.

    Everyone's entitled to their own opinion w/o being challenged to prove their position.

    Just my .02

    Last edited by dondavis3; 12-06-2009 at 08:14 AM.

  25. #24
    sliponby is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfmartin25 View Post
    I understand your position. If an armed criminal ever did point his weapon at me and scream, "Gimme your wallet"...hell, I'd just hand it over. (There's never any cash in there, and the credit cards won't get him far because I'm married - which is to say, I'm always broke!)
    Most armed robberies end non-violently with the with the BG's taking the money and run. If I was held up for my wallet, watch, etc., I'd gladly hand it over and let the BG be on his way. Would I shoot him while he was going away? No. I can cancel my credit cards, I don't carry much cash and my watch is a $40 Timex. Hardly worth a person's life-even a criminal armed robber.

    Most armed robbers are not madmen. They don't want trouble, they just want your possessions and be on their way. It's the madman that you must be on guard for. The shooter who killed the 4 cops in WA today reportedly had no motive for robbery, just to shoot and kill 4 cops. Senseless, unpredictable violence. That, jfmartin25, may be encountered anywhere, anytime.

    Stay safe. God Bless the innocent cops killed in WA and their loved ones.

  26. #25
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    That used to be true...

    Quote Originally Posted by sliponby View Post
    Most armed robberies end non-violently with the with the BG's taking the money and run. If I was held up for my wallet, watch, etc., I'd gladly hand it over and let the BG be on his way. Would I shoot him while he was going away? No. I can cancel my credit cards, I don't carry much cash and my watch is a $40 Timex. Hardly worth a person's life-even a criminal armed robber.

    Most armed robbers are not madmen. They don't want trouble, they just want your possessions and be on their way. It's the madman that you must be on guard for. The shooter who killed the 4 cops in WA today reportedly had no motive for robbery, just to shoot and kill 4 cops. Senseless, unpredictable violence. That, jfmartin25, may be encountered anywhere, anytime.

    Stay safe. God Bless the innocent cops killed in WA and their loved ones.
    ...back in the day...but in recent years armed robbers/muggers have killed many victims just for the thrill of it or because they didn't have much money on them...enough that some teachers advocate some throw money seperate from your real money to give you a chance to run or fight as they pick it up...an armed robber who robs me is going to be stopped if I get a chance...
    ...most important thing in my wallet...my carry permit...it'd take months to replace...

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