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  1. #21
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    I don't know who assigned you...

    ...the responsibility to pick apart my posts point by point and phrase by phrase and rebut each one...but I haven't seen such diligent effort expended since the last conversation I had with my ex-wife...

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  3. #22
    jfmartin25's Avatar
    jfmartin25 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    ...the responsibility to pick apart my posts point by point and phrase by phrase and rebut each one...but I haven't seen such diligent effort expended since the last conversation I had with my ex-wife...
    Sorry to hear that you are comparing me to your ex-wife. She must be a nice lady. Just kidding. Happy Thanksgiving!

  4. #23
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    It certainly is everyone's choice whether to carry concealed or not. You should do as you like.

    I happen to believe that open carry can put you at a disadvantage in some instances.

    I do not believe that concealed carry ever puts you at a disadvantage.

    I believe that most States want you conceal carry for some very good / solid reasons.

    We've all heard those reasons - most, not all, but most States got well thought out input from LEO's / judges / law makers with a lot of experience to come up with the concealed carry position.

    Since some states allow open carry, there must be some well infomedr people that think the other way.

    Good, viva la difference - that's why they make Fords and Chevy's.

    Everyone's entitled to their own opinion w/o being challenged to prove their position.

    Just my .02

    Last edited by dondavis3; 12-06-2009 at 08:14 AM.

  5. #24
    sliponby is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfmartin25 View Post
    I understand your position. If an armed criminal ever did point his weapon at me and scream, "Gimme your wallet"...hell, I'd just hand it over. (There's never any cash in there, and the credit cards won't get him far because I'm married - which is to say, I'm always broke!)
    Most armed robberies end non-violently with the with the BG's taking the money and run. If I was held up for my wallet, watch, etc., I'd gladly hand it over and let the BG be on his way. Would I shoot him while he was going away? No. I can cancel my credit cards, I don't carry much cash and my watch is a $40 Timex. Hardly worth a person's life-even a criminal armed robber.

    Most armed robbers are not madmen. They don't want trouble, they just want your possessions and be on their way. It's the madman that you must be on guard for. The shooter who killed the 4 cops in WA today reportedly had no motive for robbery, just to shoot and kill 4 cops. Senseless, unpredictable violence. That, jfmartin25, may be encountered anywhere, anytime.

    Stay safe. God Bless the innocent cops killed in WA and their loved ones.

  6. #25
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    That used to be true...

    Quote Originally Posted by sliponby View Post
    Most armed robberies end non-violently with the with the BG's taking the money and run. If I was held up for my wallet, watch, etc., I'd gladly hand it over and let the BG be on his way. Would I shoot him while he was going away? No. I can cancel my credit cards, I don't carry much cash and my watch is a $40 Timex. Hardly worth a person's life-even a criminal armed robber.

    Most armed robbers are not madmen. They don't want trouble, they just want your possessions and be on their way. It's the madman that you must be on guard for. The shooter who killed the 4 cops in WA today reportedly had no motive for robbery, just to shoot and kill 4 cops. Senseless, unpredictable violence. That, jfmartin25, may be encountered anywhere, anytime.

    Stay safe. God Bless the innocent cops killed in WA and their loved ones.
    ...back in the day...but in recent years armed robbers/muggers have killed many victims just for the thrill of it or because they didn't have much money on them...enough that some teachers advocate some throw money seperate from your real money to give you a chance to run or fight as they pick it up...an armed robber who robs me is going to be stopped if I get a chance...
    ...most important thing in my wallet...my carry permit...it'd take months to replace...

  7. #26
    GoFullAuto is offline Junior Member
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    Super delicate matter, here in Italy people are scared to death at the idea of citizens going armed, there is a huge level of distrust between fellow citizens :-(

    My 2 cents is this: carrying is like buckling up. That is, the very last line of defense when all else failed. On the road, that means "all other safety rules". On self defense, that means "when society allowed violent aggressors to roam free around, so that a gun is all that may stand between me and the "mercy" of said murderers. It's not a matter of big principles, I myself thik that it SHOULD be my state's FIRST responsibility, to keep me protected. But, even the best state will fail to do so 100% of time.

    It's a matter of facts. Hit with no belt and you'll smash face in window. Be caught that one time in life by an overwhelming aggressor, and you'll just succumb to his "mercy".

    All the remaining details (carry open / hidden / revo / semiauto / DA / SA / Glock / 1-2-3 spare mags) simply have to be adapted to context, there can be no absolute recipe.

    Not my problem anyway, my citizens have long decided they (we...) prefer to be victims. :-/

    Ciao!
    GfA

  8. #27
    twomode is offline Member
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    jfmartin, other than to state your position that it's a duty and an obligation to carry, your remaining statements and posts actually confuse or are contradictory to your first.

    You state you don't go anywhere without your weapon. You don't go anywhere that's is unsafe unless you have your gun.
    Then since it's unsafe, you don't go there. Then, you carry in your yard while mowing the lawn (or planting flowers or whatever) and you are carrying while sitting at your 'puter posting!!!!

    By your own definition, 2 places you deem unsafe.

    I think you need to move out of your house. To where I have NO idea.

    Furthermore, you deviate from what is an obvious attempt at an argument when others post their different views. If all you want is for everyone to agree with everything you say, well, I've never seen that forum. If you're going to post a point of view, expect debate. Fresh, knowledgeable, respectful debate. And then learn from it. That's why people responded. You did yourself no favors arguing with different points of view.

  9. #28
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    I dont know of any place where you are truely 100% safe, and noone ever knows when something bad will happen or where....so many things could happen, its crazy to try to summarize them all....bottom line is that if you have your weapon with you, you are always going to be better off than if you didnt have it.....maybe you will never need it, or maybe tomorrow while you are in line for coffee or shopping with the missus you will, if anyone who has been walking the face of the earth for more than 5 minutes hasnt figured out that nothing is guaranteed, well then theres no hope for you.....

    never mind the bad guys, what about things like dog attacks or big pet monkeys named travis? Think the lady who had her face and hands ripped off by the monkey wasnt wishing for a 45?

    I think if you can carry and have a licence, then you should, always...

  10. #29
    Handgun World's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
    Theres only one time you will ever need your weapon, The day you leave it at home.
    Well said Redwolf. Short, sweet, to the point.

  11. #30
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    uhhhhhh



    hate it when that happens...

  12. #31
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    Weren't no mall ninja around when...

    ...these happened...

    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...87/detail.html

    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_7646493?source=bb

    http://cbs4denver.com/local/denver.c....2.560991.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-w...mall-shooting/

    http://www.mahalo.com/chicago-mall-shooting

    ...try telling the survivors that it won't happen here...or the many more that it's happened at before and after these...it's easy to dismiss them or ridicule those who warn us...till it's our niece or daughter...or mother or brother...times have sadly changed...proof is in the papers....

  13. #32
    falchunt's Avatar
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    I agree with you sheepdog, I was implying that someone was being a troll...

  14. #33
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    I needa...

    ...nudder cuppa coffee...I misread you...sorry...just blowin' the trumpet....again....

  15. #34
    Bisley's Avatar
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    People tend to over-dramatize a bit when trying to express their reasons for carrying a gun. I've been guilty of it myself, because it really is kind of a monumental commitment, if you think about it. I've lived my whole life believing that I will exit this world without seriously harming another human being, and I still believe that will happen.

    But bad things happen to good people, every minute of the day, and most of them never believed such a thing to be possible. So, I choose to carry a lethal weapon on my body, just so I don't have to worry about the consequences of being caught completely defenseless. Should the 'victim selection process' ever go against me, or somebody I'm willing to defend, I won't go out with a whimper.

  16. #35
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    Carrying a gun is no business at all... meaning it's nobody else's business to know that you are carrying in my opinion. I've been carrying for a very long time, and there's perhaps a handful of people that know that I do, where I live.

    I carry it just in case I need it, not because I think I will or because I'm so switched on that I'll always be able to know where danger may be. I don't think anyone would or should purposefully put themselves in a dangerous area, but sometimes it's unavoidable. Ever get a flat tire? Ever take a wrong turn? Ever miss an exit on the highway? As my wife says about our dogs...shit happens, have a scooper!

  17. #36
    buck32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    Carrying a gun is no business at all... meaning it's nobody else's business to know that you are carrying in my opinion. I've been carrying for a very long time, and there's perhaps a handful of people that know that I do, where I live.

    I carry it just in case I need it, not because I think I will or because I'm so switched on that I'll always be able to know where danger may be. I don't think anyone would or should purposefully put themselves in a dangerous area, but sometimes it's unavoidable. Ever get a flat tire? Ever take a wrong turn? Ever miss an exit on the highway? As my wife says about our dogs...shit happens, have a scooper!
    +1

    Now that is some real canine wisdom

  18. #37
    copyoftheoriginal's Avatar
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    the weapon itself is a tremendous amount of responsibility. A choice to be made without delusions of heroism.

  19. #38
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    We've got...

    ...a lot of people carrying who probably are wannabees...nursing "delusions of heroism"....as mentioned...we also have many carrying who are highly trained and experienced ex- and retired LEOS and Military who not only know when, but , more importantly, when NOT to...make use of the weapon...I think the majority fall far from the former...and yet won't come close to the latter...and don't want to...for them it's insurance for their safety and their families and they wouldn't want to be in a situation where they had to act...I've known some in all three categories and much prefer the second and third...the first make me nervous and are often downright embarrassing for the rest of us....

  20. #39
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by twomode View Post
    jfmartin, other than to state your position that it's a duty and an obligation to carry, your remaining statements and posts actually confuse or are contradictory to your first. .
    -Nope, never said that. Might want to go back and re-read ALL of MY posts and try a little harder not to confuse them with what others have said.

    Quote Originally Posted by twomode View Post
    You state you don't go anywhere without your weapon. You don't go anywhere that's is unsafe unless you have your gun. .
    Nope, sorry, wrong again. I did not say that I, "Don't go anywhere without a weapon". Again, you may want to go back and re-read all of MY posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by twomode View Post
    Then, you carry in your yard while mowing the lawn (or planting flowers or whatever) and you are carrying while sitting at your 'puter posting!!!!
    I think you missed my point, what I am trying to convey is that I tend to wear my weapon at times when other people might not think that any sane and rational individual would deem appropriate. I have never professed to be either of those two traits. On that note however, let me explain some of the benefits of carrying a weapon at certain times when people don't expect you to. The other day, some ex-criminal-looking post-teen rang the door bell and started off with a sales pitch about how he is reforming his life by selling magazine subscriptions door-to-door. He cut himself off mid-sentance when his eyes ceased contact with my eyes and recognized that I had holstered across my chest a very large pistol. I just smiled and slowly closed the door without saying a word. As I peered through the peephole, I could see him fast-walking back down the driveway and getting into a shitbox car that someone else was already waiting for him in. My thought process here was such; perhaps this "reformed" individual was not so "reformed" and was possibly casing the neighborhood looking for soft targets. If this is the case, I'm pretty sure he was well informed that my home was no soft target. Thank you very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by twomode View Post
    By your own definition, 2 places you deem unsafe.

    I think you need to move out of your house. To where I have NO idea.

    Furthermore, you deviate from what is an obvious attempt at an argument when others post their different views. If all you want is for everyone to agree with everything you say, well, I've never seen that forum. If you're going to post a point of view, expect debate. Fresh, knowledgeable, respectful debate. And then learn from it. That's why people responded. You did yourself no favors arguing with different points of view.
    I think you need to figure out who you're really angry with and take it out on them, not me. The intent of my original post was not to cause an argument, but to state my OPINION, just like everyone else did. I don't really care if people agree with me or not, nor do I care to waste any more energy on this subject arguing a dead point. I already stated many posts ago, that I have my side of view, other's have theirs' and that's the beauty of life. So, considering I already stated this, it looks to me like you were just looking to instigate more from me. Apparently you don't heed your own advice;
    Quote Originally Posted by twomode View Post
    Fresh, knowledgeable, respectful debate.

  21. #40
    Bisley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfmartin25 View Post
    I don't really care if people agree with me or not, nor do I care to waste any more energy on this subject arguing a dead point. I already stated many posts ago, that I have my side of view, other's have theirs' and that's the beauty of life.
    That is just fine - I can't say that I feel much different, as far as trying to please other people.

    Your response to this is not necessary, since you have tired of the 'argument,' but, surely you understand that responsible people feel the need to offer rebuttal to statements they think are wrong, for the benefit of those who are new to the whole concept of defending themselves with firearms, and who are reading these threads diligently and with open minds.

    Your philosophy of self-defense seems to be a bit 'one dimensional,' geared towards your always knowing when danger is likely, and making a show of strength that will make the average low-life decide to select an easier victim. That is probably a workable strategy for use against several different kinds of would-be attackers, and in a variety of circumstances. But, the thing is that most folks who have made the decision to carry a gun have their own particular 'pet' scenarios that they believe they are guarding against, and most of the more realistic ones require that the BG does not know that they are armed.

    For example, in my own case, one of the scenarios I envision is something like the Luby's massacre, from twenty some odd years ago. This is probably because I used to stop in there occasionally, with my entire family, usually accompanied by my elderly parents. I imagine what it would have been like, had the BG showed up at one of those times. Naturally, this is one of the scenarios I play out in my mind when planning my personal SD 'plan.' There are others, of course, but this is the one that keeps me diligent in my practice discipline and in my determination to carry every day, everywhere I go.

    In such a case, the BG intends to die, anyway, so if he sees a gun on someone, he is not going to back off, but rather will try to take out the gun-toter first, so he can do maximum damage before he checks out. This is just one example, but you get the point, I'm sure, that there are all different types of BG's.

    My own personal opinion about open carry is that I believe it should be an option, but it is one that I would rarely avail myself of, because concealed carry suits my self-defense strategy better. As I get older, I can even imagine that open carry might actually make me the target of some punk who needed to steal a gun.

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