I'm considering purchasing a new handgun and would appreciate your guys' input on weapon choice. I'm looking for a handgun that is tried and true, tested in the field. Stopping power, accuracy, durability and overall quality are characteristics I'm taking into consideration. (Preferably not a revolver) I work within the private security field and need a handgun that can weather the environment, be reliable, fast and still be able to keep grouping tight.
-- Also if you have a favorite tactical holster, or set of holsters, that go along with your weapon choice be sure to mention them. Cuts out a lot of trial and error on my part which definitely makes me happy
-- Thank you
Sweet Jesus. What are the odds? Two 21 year-old's in less than a month that are serious enough operators to land work doing high-profile, executive armed security, yet need advice on tactical equipment? Do we have a sign up that says "Mall Ninjas Welcome"?
Just ask the Sergeant of your three-man Rapid Tactical Force, he should know the answer. We are decidedly "un-tactical" here as we live in reality.
Glock 19 or 17. Sig P226 if you have the funds.or better yet Sig Sauer P226 Blackwater Edition for those hardcore operators, who like a bear claw etched on the receiver and grips.
I'm thinking a Jennings or Lorcin would be appropriate. If you really want to splurge and max out the tacticoll meter, maybe a HiPoint.
Although, sense your hands are probably registered, the extra weight of toting a handgun would probably only be a hindrance to your lethality.
I just saw the tags on this thread.Now I'm really concerned.Edit Tags Tags
blackwater, contract, handgun, pistol
I take that back, go with the Hi Point, I forgot about that pistol.....
I think he is just looking for suggestions from people who have an intrest, and experience with handguns. Hopefully most of his time is spent learning his job, (i.e. laws, human behavior) not focused solely on his handgun like people with 4800+ posts on this forum. Back on subject, I would recommend Sig. I've owned several brands (not Glock ... yet), but my Sig has performed perfectly since purchased.
Just to clarify a few things.. 1) Yes I'm a 21 year old, brand new to security and only landed it as a part time job because I knew the guy who heads it up. The main reason I'm doing security specifically is because I'm a contracted ROTC cadet that volunteers for everything I possibly can to get ahead and therefore can't have a job with normal hours interfering with my military involvement, which is more important to me.
2) I'm focusing on the pistol not because I plan to actually use it and not because I'm the normal gung-ho 21 year old wanting to re-enact some shoot it up, but because I have the money for a good solid weapon and simply would rather learn on a high quality weapon similar to what I may be using in the future if I do in fact continue on in this or any other tactical field. So in short: I want to lay down the extra bucks for a solid weapon now, so I don't suffer from the bad habits and shortcomings of a bargain weapon.
3)The tags I put on the post involving contractors and Blackwater , etc... are there not because I aspire to be some crazy high-profile response force, but because I know of and respect the contractors from Blackwater and other Private Military institutions. I acknowledge that they have a high degree of field experience and, in general, knowledge that may apply to me. I was hoping the tag might attract someone with considerable experience, and therefore, room to speak.
I'm hoping to go to simple training courses at Private Training Centers such as Storm Mountain, Front Sight, Blackwater because I think the skills I could acquire there may prove to be useful in my military career and possibly even afterwards. I'm a humble person with little experience, and I don't want to hide that, I'm simply asking for help from people who have lived the life I may be about to embark on. Thank you
BTW, I have 4800+ posts because I have been on this forum for 3+YEARS, not 3 days. 4 posts a day over that time tends to add up.
The trial and error is how you figure out what works for you. So, with your lack of experience, how did you land this "Private security field" job?
This does sound crazy. Really. Somebody going into this type of work should know a lot about guns and equipment already. Maybe even breeded into them I wouldn't want somebody protecting me that just decided to do it because it sounded cool and took some classes. In my opinion you should be able to use weapons like they are second nature. You should know how you react under stress. I'm not saying you can't do it or aren't capable. You might be awesome in such position. Only you know and maybe only others will know if you are truely tested. What matters is if you believe you are right for the job not only for your sake but even more so for those you would protect.
Seraph8588, Your honesty is good. Since you have little experience you will be hounded a little over the topic.
Have you ever played paintball? Years ago I played it at a professional level. I'm not bragging about it but what I am saying is it has some reality to it. When you play paintball you can't be the type of player that stresses out when you are attacked if you want to do well. Say for instance I am in the woods or I go into a building while playing paintball. Situational awareness is keen. I stay focused and wipe everybody out. Same with them coming in. I naturally move to the desired positions under stress and I stay focused on knocking all opponents out. All but the best will to some degree "freak" out and panic. If they continue to shoot it is going everywhere but in the right direction or they just give up. This is like real life from what I experienced too. I have gained controll over attacks when pulling my gun in a few circumstances but one was an actual gunfight and left me no choice but to end the fight to live. But the key is I knew already I could do it before it happened. I didn't ever believe that I would freeze up in these circumstances. I didn't ever believe I would lose my ability to make good decisions under pressure or lose my motor skills. Basically I didn't ever believe I would crap my pants, roll up into a ball, and suck my thumb. Since I already knew this about myself I acted admirably. I am not saying you aren't capable. You may be godly for all I know. What I am saying is maybe you should be asking yourself if you are. You can go do the training and all. But really you should be able to put up a fight naturally just because that is who you are already.
I would ask myself if you were someone else and could hire anybody for protection when the SHTF would it be you? Would this change with training?
Some types of tests that include stress and adrenalin that you may have experience with to measure your ability to cope with circumstances: Dangerous racing of any sort including downhill mountain bikes, motorcycles, cars, atv, skiing, etc. Do you freak out when there is potential to wreck? Or when wreck is pretty much enevitable do you stay in it and try to fix it for the best. Hunting and paintball have some stress and adrenalin and use of guns. When that first deer was in sight did you immediately drop him with a shot to the vitals or did you think about it, get the shakes, and miss or not shoot? How you may have handled fist fights or wresting is a good one. Maybe you have experience with something here or something else that will tell you about yourself.
Thanks for redirecting the flaming and beginning to be more constructive. I understand entirely that there are the moronic people out there that think life is a giant James Bond film, and that forums such as these are probably a common breeding ground so I take no offense.
In response to some of the questions let me tell you a little bit about my past experiences and such so that you can better grasp the point I'm at and help me from there. I have owned and been around firearms in my family and personally for most of my life. I started out in Trap/Skeet competitions and loved it, then moved on to rifle. After shooting traditional target rifle for some time at the range I snatched up an AK-47 and AR-15 when the assault weapons ban lifted, more as a possible investment then anything practical as I thought the ban might be re-applied soon. I have fired several handguns but this is where my experience is very limited, in Ohio where I live I can not own (or even handle in a store for that matter) any handgun until I'm 21 so I'm admittedly brand new to this type of weapon.
I have in the past played Paintball and Airsoft and I fully recognize the benefits gained through decision making skills while under pressure and the ability to have self control while under the effects on adrenaline. In these situations I think I did pretty well, I tend to keep my cool and not freak out (then again they aren't real bullets but I guess to a certain degree it applies). I've been in a couple of fist fights and, although I try to avoid a fight erupting as much as possible, I tend to excel in those. Not because I'm a kung-fu master or anything, but because it seems everyone I've fought lets the moment get the best of them and they turn into some arm swinging machine, which makes fighting them pretty easy since most of what they do either doesn't make any sense or is a waste of energy. HOWEVER, I also recognize the disadvantages of things like airsoft and paintball...such as bad habits being formed by taking cover behind an object that may stop a paintball but wouldn't stand up for a second against a 7.62 round haha.
Overall I'm assertive, I think shit through and I've been good in being "that guy" that steps forward. I've been in post-disaster situations (not tactical in any way but still high stress) and I do well at performing under stress, in a SHTF scenario. Currently I don't do any high-profile crazy security stuff or anything, my friend has me working at normal rent-a-cop type details, but I would like to train and eventually once ready expand my horizons down the road, slowly moving my way up. Not to mention, whatever tactical skills I could gain could possibly benefit me in my military career. I'm simply looking for some guidance on how to go about entering this field and working my way up through skills and such. Recommendations on equipment of any type are welcome because if I'm gonna buy anything, I'd rather buy something meant for "the task" and avoid problems that you guys may have already encountered. I'm just trying to think ahead. Let me know if you have advice, I'm new, I welcome anything you throw my way.
"such as bad habits being formed by taking cover behind an object that may stop a paintball but wouldn't stand up for a second against a 7.62 round haha."
lol so true. Some of the worst paintball players were young Military and Police. They just run and run trying to find something to protect them. One thing to learn may be that the bullets may be your only cover sometimes. But yeah paintball is paintball.
My humble sheepdog opinion is to look at what LEO use, Secret Service, and any type of tactical special operators or forces. Maybe there is even an internet forum relating your exact field.
Many call the 1911 the professionals gun. It is single action only and is carried cocked and locked. This means you flip the safety and you have a light short trigger immediately on every single shot. The thing is you won't see it much in the hands of Law Enforcement. I believe that is because of liability. Glocks are popular as are Sig Sauer either DAO or DA/SA. The reason is the first shot is harder to pull off by accident. The U.S. Secret Service use the Sig Sauer P229. In my opinion the Glock is as simple as it comes. It is easy to operate and safe to use without accident. You will end up with more than one gun but if I was to say what to start out with it would be a Glock in 9mm or .40. Maybe 19,23,17,22, 34, or 35. The 34 and 35 are a bit larger but they are very very nice guns. All of these guns are very respectable and will do the job of a handgun. The Glocks are fast shooting and have the same trigger pull everytime. They are very popular in competition shooting as is the 1911 platform. If you go with a gun like a Sig Sauer either in DAO or DA/SA you may not find them to be as fast on the first shot and with the DAO even there after. The transition from a first DA shot to the subsequent SA shot that follows can also be tricky. They can all do the job though and I believe they are safer in the hands of most people if they are drawing on somebody that is not a definite threat.
Calibers that are good include .45, .40, 9mm, .357 Sig. I'm leaving out revolver rounds because for your main gun I believe you want the firepower of more rounds and ease of reloads. I am also leaving out 10mm just because it is in only larger frame guns. Well there is the compact Glock but then I wouldn't recommend that handgun here.
Another reason you don't see the 1911 used by agencies is they tend to cost more initially and need more maintenance. Ease of maintenance is another issue. They also can be finicky with ammo. I don't recommend it as a first handgun. Sometimes you hear of one that is not reliable under any circumstance. Then others function perfect.
I was looking at the Sig 226 BW Tac and the Mark 23, does anyone have experience with these or know of problems and the such. Also as I do this with my rifles is it a good idea to have a gunsmith look at it and clean up the action and internals after purchase? Thanks for the help guys
Neither, if you get the Blackwater, just be prepared to be laughed at. Mark 23? Are you going to be an SF operator?? Go with the Glock 17, 19, or 34, or the Sig 226. Go to the gun shop and feel the difference between the guns, then decide from there. Beretta M9 would probably be a gun you also want to check out.
Hell, go rent some pistols from the range and try each one out, take a buddy with you that knows how to shoot.
I went to the gun range with a buddy from work, he was an operator in Iraq, showed me how shoot, and reccommended to me the Glock 19, and it really worked for me. Its reliable, and hold 15 rounds of 9mm, more than likely you will be shooting 9mm in the military.
Sig 226. Tried true and accurate. Glock's are rock solid as well. Can't beat a G17 for rugged and goof proof.
Your education is where you should be putting forth your effort - not which tactical weapon you are familiar with - they'll teach you that. If you want to get good at something practice your marksmanship, get a 4.0 in your studies and get in shape physically, running, push-ups, sit-ups. Everything you think you are learning as a civilian is going to be almost useless in the military - the military has THEIR way of doing things. Also if you have any common sense you can bring that with you.
So one of 2 things - you are either blowing smoke up our as* or you are being misguided. Do you really want to know what is important to joining the military - talk to your local recruiter.
If you want a current military handgun they are the Sig P226/P229(with a rail), Glock 19/23 and Beretta 92 - and no not the tactical version (only in Hollywood) and no laser sights.
[QUOTE]it makes gun owners look like idiots[QUOTE]
I've been reading on this forum for over a year actually (member since 08, guess you were admiring your handgun(s) again and forgot to notice it's actually 2009) I liked your reply though Todd. I'll go down any road I want. And really, "sparky", is name calling necessary here on a public forum, especially after your comment, "protecting the integrity of this forum". I'm sure you'll have some reply to this post, it's obvious you can dish it out, but can't take it.
Let it go, junior. You can't win, hostility will get you banned.
I agree entirely on the priorities regarding being in ROTC and what the military will want. Although I'm more so talking of something to do in my spare time during the break I have from school. My studies are my number one priority as without the grades, I don't get a commission and that's the end of the line. I'm proud to say though I'm holding a 3.82 GPA and I'm taking courses in Arabic/Spanish and Intelligence Analysis. I also concentrate heavily on PT/PFA standards and consider myself in pretty good shape. On my dream sheet I'm going to apply for STO (Special Tactics Officer) although I'm not kidding myself on the realistic difficulty and chances of actually getting in, and then my second choice being Intel, then Sec Forces.
More than anything else, I'm interested in military style training because it's what I enjoy. I'm not looking to be Rambo or pretend to be some Special Forces commando, I'd simply like to learn how to handle a weapon against a human threat so if the occasion ever arose, I knew I could trust myself. I'm not sure if I had mentioned earlier but to be specific about the ROTC I'm with the Air Force, and to be honest they won't train me on these types of things unless I somehow get a spec-op slot, which the chances range from slim to none.
I still appreciate all the feedback, any perspective or advice is always nice to have.