Ok, I'll post the first reply. just some answers to your retorical questions and futher observations.

first - i don't care what sights you have on the weapon, it will put a hole exactly where the gun is pointing when it goes "bang". This includes fancy laser sights and scopes. It is up to you to adjust the aiming to match your sighting.

Second - if it don't stink, it ain't gonna work! Muratic acid works much better than apple vinegar when you want to etch something. Tolulene is a much better cleaner than nail polish! i don't realy want that piney- fresh smell in my GSR.

third - if you had to deal with a bunch of Mall Ninjas every day, it has to wear you down. I think a lot of people come into gun shops wanting "confirmation" of their opinion and not advice. it is amazing the change in attitude when you can honestly as for advice, and accept what you hear.(with a grain of salt of course)

YMMV,

John

Night sights are a misnomer of sorts. They should have called them low-light sights. Try using them at dawn or dusk, you'll see them "shine" (pun intended) for what they are. Besides, where's your damn flashlight?

Stinky gun cleaning chemicals are my only defense against the wifes stinky toe nail polish remover. It also keeps her out of my "man cave".

My biggest "food for thought" point is when people get so into upgrading their guns with all the neato-frito super dooper gun gadgets and widgets, lighter triggers, skeletonized this or that and start talking about how much better their gun is because it locks up 0.003 second faster. The whole time, they lack the skill to even shoot the damn thing to any level even CLOSE to needing that extra 0.003 second. People need to learn to shoot first, then, once they're so good that their equipment is holding them back, upgrade! I've yet to meet someone (in person) that can pull a trigger faster than their gun can reset, or one of these "upgraders" who can control recoil even WITH their super fancy recoil reducer spring (that causes more problems that it solves). It seems the mall ninjas drive the industry, or portions of it, at times. Want proof? Open up a magazine and count how many times you see the words "Tactical, Advanced, Special Forces, and High Speed Low Drag". You'll lose count 8 pages into most gun magazines.

I somewhat agree with the original Jimmy...

1 -- night sights are great for what they designed for...BUT someone needs to come up with something so they are MORE usefull during the day. Maybe some integral flip up day sights? Or get used to the point and fire tactic...we don't need no stinking sights....

2 -- The more stinky, the better it works...usually. They tried the "smell better" thing in the automotive field. They added a grape smell to synthetic gear lube. At least the grape smell let you know that it required synthetic fluid .

3 -- Every shop should have at least one person that can relate to the customers, poor cust. service = no business. I have met quite a few asshats working in gun stores that knew didly squat about their product.I can see where a gunsmith might come across a little rough...working mainly by yourself = questionable people skills.Generally, most people that have interests in guns are pretty likeable and are easy to get along with. Recent events kinda puts a strain on our hobbie and that makes some more irretable.

Go to a gunshow...Half of the venders will bend over backwards to talk with ya and try to make any deal happen.The other half could give a rats ass if they sell anything, are holier than thou, and I think the real reason they are there is just to show off their stuff. Their products are no longer cool and interesting...it is just some jerkoffs junk!

I love the smell of CLP in the morning, and Hoppe's Elite, too.

Both are good products that wont stink up the joint.

well 1st, theres a cool trick for even the smallest weapon with night sights, even bad night sights.........let off a round, 99% of the time is gonna say "OH Sh**" the second they hear your wepaon discharge, usualy this sound is enough to decern thier general location *plus the muzzle flash lights up a pitch dark room quite nicely*, and place more lead in that area than crimson trace sights would, remember if its pitch dark, nothing short of a talon light is gonna let you see your opponent

#2 if you hate the smell of barrel bore, higgins, hopps and all that there is a great cleaning solution that you can get at most dollar stores, its called LA's totally awesome! costs 1 dollar and they use it to clean airplane engines. smells like lemons!!! i

#3 your absolutely right, i went into a Cabella's the other day to ask a question about a S&W 6906 i have, the guy behind the counter automaticaly shot my question down, and then looked me in the eye and said "my advice is you get rid of your girl gun and buy a gock!" horrible attitude and tone included! long story short i ended up going to a local gun smith , asking the question to him and ended up giving him my $200 for a new slide. People who sell guns should really be more personable, i dont belive i've met one person in my history with firearms that walks into a dealer or store without a smile on thier face and a skip in thier step because thier happy to purchase a new firearm, and when thier met with a cocky, rude know-it-all i really think it sours the experience..............just my oppinon :-D

It seems to me that most of the gun shop guys that you're talking about probably have trouble getting a job anywhere else with that did you look always on their face and talking all the crap about this or that gun with this or that round able to bust a human skull like a Mellon. They all can't work for the DMV, they had to spread out in case of an emergency. I mean. If the Canadians do decide to invade..And they will! (shudder) we need to make sure they every community still has a no tact looking like he smells a guy to keep everyone just angry enough to be able to understand that they are needed. Kind of like ale Gribble on King of the Hill.

I personally would be a little afeert of good smelling gun cleaners. The first time I pulled a gun out at the range and someone started talking about a spring meadow I'd get scared that if I used this what's the wife have in the bathroom

I told a girl once that night sites were invented so the blind could shoot too. she also believed ear wax was dead brain cells though. I do love to entertain myseld at others expense sometimes. I think it was because her gun smelled like a spring meadow though.

good point! i dont belive firearms were meant to smell like a summers eve........lol but personaly i like the smell of gun oil mixed with GSR.........wakes ya up in the morning!!!!! :-D

Originally Posted by jay7

well 1st, theres a cool trick for even the smallest weapon with night sights, even bad night sights.........let off a round, 99% of the time is gonna say "OH Sh**" the second they hear your wepaon discharge, usualy this sound is enough to decern thier general location *plus the muzzle flash lights up a pitch dark room quite nicely*, and place more lead in that area than crimson trace sights would, remember if its pitch dark, nothing short of a talon light is gonna let you see your opponent

Sounds like a great way to shoot someone that wasn't in need of being shot. I hope you don't have kids that sneek out at night when they get older.

Originally Posted by zhurdan

Sounds like a great way to shoot someone that wasn't in need of being shot. I hope you don't have kids that sneek out at night when they get older.

It's also a good way to get a free ride to jail. Have all your guns taken away and prolly never be able to get another one again.

I must be defective. I don't mind the smell of Hoppes #9 at all. In fact, I prefer it to most of the perfumes who's malodorous haze one must penetrate when entering most of the mall department stores.

I think most of the gadgets folks bolt on to their handgun are just toys. Much like the rear spoilers on all of those front wheel drive cars that would blow a gasket trying to reach 90mph anyway.

While a friendly gun counter guy would be nice, I appreciate the knowledgeable ones more. Finding out that Walther P5 grips won't work on a P5C somewhat laconically is much better than having Richard Simmons hawking his Glock that can't be seen by airport scanners.

Now if you could get Massad Ayoob's knowledge in Shania Twain's figure behind the counter...

Originally Posted by hawcer

It's also a good way to get a free ride to jail. Have all your guns taken away and prolly never be able to get another one again.

im not talking about in your home, or when you think someones sneaking around, im talking when it hits the fan, pitch dark alley and your physicaly being attacked, anyone got any better ideas in zero light conditions with no flashlight, night sights dont work then, crimson trace sights are useless too. wich would you be, the guy that used the only sense you had? the sense of sound to aqquire your target, or are you gonna be the guy that gets made fun of on chat boards like this for being stabbed, then shot 8 times with his own weapon

................either one of you been in a situation where you had to draw your weapon? where you had to use it? or just been through a basic NRA course where they tell you what might happen in one of those situations........plus it was mostly sarcasm anyway, really think about it, take away your eyes, can you still hit your target?

Originally Posted by jay7

im not talking about in your home, or when you think someones sneaking around, im talking when it hits the fan, pitch dark alley and your physicaly being attacked, anyone got any better ideas in zero light conditions with no flashlight, night sights dont work then, crimson trace sights are useless too. wich would you be, the guy that used the only sense you had? the sense of sound to aqquire your target, or are you gonna be the guy that gets made fun of on chat boards like this for being stabbed, then shot 8 times with his own weapon

Sorry, none of that was in your original post, so what were we supposed to do? Most of us here are here to discuss plausible defensive use of a pistol, not "end of the world/New York thug attacks/roaming hoards of gang banger" situations.

Originally Posted by jay7

................either one of you been in a situation where you had to draw your weapon? where you had to use it? or just been through a basic NRA course where they tell you what might happen in one of those situations........plus it was mostly sarcasm anyway, really think about it, take away your eyes, can you still hit your target?

As a matter of fact, I have had to draw my weapon. Didn't have to shoot the guy, but took him into temporary custody until the police arrived, so... yeah, I've been there, done that.

Oh, and you'll note that in my first post, my first question was "where's your damn flashlight?" Just having a gun isn't enough. I believe if you carry a gun, you should carry a flashlight, and spare magazines. You'd be surprized how many people I have helped train DON'T carry spare magazines because they say "If I need more than one magazine blah blah blah". I can't understand that. They train to use their pistol and just assume that everything is going to go to plan. Not having a flashlight, to me, shows a complete lack of planning and forethought as to how serious carrying a gun is.

Originally Posted by jay7

................either one of you been in a situation where you had to draw your weapon? where you had to use it? or just been through a basic NRA course where they tell you what might happen in one of those situations........

I know for a fact that one of those guys has had to draw and is talking from experience. I suggest before you continue to call people out, especially guys that have been here a lot longer than you have, that you do a little search of past posts first.

EDIT: Damn, zhur is faster on the keyboard than I am.

Originally Posted by zhurdan

Most of us here are here to discuss plausible defensive use of a pistol, not "end of the world/New York thug attacks/roaming hoards of gang banger" situations.

Nor are we allowed to. Those topics get saved for the forums that allow delusional daydreaming.

Just in case anyone forgot:

• PROHIBITED TOPICS: The discussion of any illegal activity is strictly prohibited. This is a no-tolerance issue. Members who are in violation of this rule will have their accounts closed upon the first infraction with no warnings given. SHTF, TEOWAWKI, & Zombies: SHTF (S#*t Hits The Fan), TEOWAWKI (The End of The World As We Know It) and Zombie threads (this includes any fictitious or yet to be verified creature) are prohibited. Legitimate discussion about short-term survival from a natural disaster like a hurricane or flood will be allowed, but will be closely moderated and threads closed without warning at the first sign of deviation. Violations of this rule will result in warnings and account closure depending on the frequency and severity of the offensives. “Gangsta” talk: “Gangsta” talk and slang is prohibited. Depending on the severity of the infraction, a member may receive a simple warning or may have their account closed.

Originally Posted by zhurdan

Sorry, none of that was in your original post, so what were we supposed to do? Most of us here are here to discuss plausible defensive use of a pistol, not "end of the world/New York thug attacks/roaming hoards of gang banger" situations.


As a matter of fact, I have had to draw my weapon. Didn't have to shoot the guy, but took him into temporary custody until the police arrived, so... yeah, I've been there, done that.

Oh, and you'll note that in my first post, my first question was "where's your damn flashlight?" Just having a gun isn't enough. I believe if you carry a gun, you should carry a flashlight, and spare magazines. You'd be surprized how many people I have helped train DON'T carry spare magazines because they say "If I need more than one magazine blah blah blah". I can't understand that. They train to use their pistol and just assume that everything is going to go to plan. Not having a flashlight, to me, shows a complete lack of planning and forethought as to how serious carrying a gun is.

well in that case i do agree with you, but where i live currently, the thug in an alley way scenario is more than a reality sadly, i personaly carry a min mag on my belt, but in extreme situaitons, dark back road even, if its gonna be me or him, its gonna be him, and cudo's on the temp custody......i wasnt so lucky my only time.

Originally Posted by Todd

Nor are we allowed to. Those topics get saved for the forums that allow delusional daydreaming.

Just in case anyone forgot:

• PROHIBITED TOPICS: The discussion of any illegal activity is strictly prohibited. This is a no-tolerance issue. Members who are in violation of this rule will have their accounts closed upon the first infraction with no warnings given. SHTF, TEOWAWKI, & Zombies: SHTF (S#*t Hits The Fan), TEOWAWKI (The End of The World As We Know It) and Zombie threads (this includes any fictitious or yet to be verified creature) are prohibited. Legitimate discussion about short-term survival from a natural disaster like a hurricane or flood will be allowed, but will be closely moderated and threads closed without warning at the first sign of deviation. Violations of this rule will result in warnings and account closure depending on the frequency and severity of the offensives. “Gangsta” talk: “Gangsta” talk and slang is prohibited. Depending on the severity of the infraction, a member may receive a simple warning or may have their account closed.

your right you have been here longer, and ill give you that, but my point in alot of that was......alot of guys these days take NRA courses and thats great, i support that..........but....i've not only had to remove my weapon, 3 years ago i was forced to use it, and its nothing like they say in the NRA pistol courses, theres no time to think, no time to rationalise, really no time to even check your backstop.........at 10 feet , it takes an attacker less than 2.5 seconds to be ontop of you, wich leaves enough time to draw your weapon, fire and pray to god you hit him, there is so much adrenaline running through your veins, you get tunnel vision, and the 2 and a half seconds seems like 20 minutes, your heart beats so hard that you feel as if yoru going to faint, and no matter the training, you shake, you shake alot.......

my issue was the comment about going to jail.......yeah...i know thats a possibility, but when it happens, its on the back burner, you think about surviving, and thats all , not the laws, not your training, not sight aqquisition or target tracking, just instincts.........i may be a junior member.....but self defense with a firearm has hit all too close to home for me.

Originally Posted by jimmy

First: Night sights...OK, they are cool for HD/SD at night, but if it is so dark that you can't see the bad guy how would a glowing dot in the dark help..

I buy guns with night sights to cover one specific scenario...the one I think is most likely, in a home invasion:
shooting into a lighted area from a darkened area. Anyone who has half a brain is not going to allow a light behind him, when investigating a possible intruder, but there may be a night light, or light coming through windows that allow you to see the intruder. With night sights, you can fire an aimed shot, without back-lighting your sights and giving away your position. Without them, you can only point.

Ooopps..!! I posted this thread to stir some fun ... you guys took it dead serious..
Didn't mean to it to reach that level.

Originally Posted by jimmy

Ooopps..!! I posted this thread to stir some fun ... you guys took it dead serious..
Didn't mean to it to reach that level.

Trouble maker!

Personally, I LIKE the smell of guns. . .solvent, lubricants, etc. It's kinda soothing and reminds me of. . . .napalm in the morning. LOL

Originally Posted by MLB

Now if you could get Massad Ayoob's knowledge in Shania Twain's figure behind the counter...

I dont know about Massad's knowledge in them (but definitely knowledgeable), but a couple of LGS around here. well.. when the young ladies who work thier walk out, i just about forget to ask the price of the gun, im just trying to be coherent and not get maced for staring too hard. (in other words, they put shania to SHAME). damn, now i gotta go BACK to the place i just bought my 605 at to get Another chance to put my tongue back in my mouth. Thanks MLB.

Wat the?...I luv the smell of Rem Oil, Hoppe #9, CLP and most other lubricants and caustic bore cleaners..It smells like...well...? GUNS! for the cryin' out loud.