Personally, I have seen the hi-points in my local gun shop, but never fired one. I know people who have and their opinions are as varied as the ones on here. I guess what it really boils down to is what you want the gun for and what can you honestly afford. I own a couple of Taurus, which are in the $400 to $600 range and considered a POS by some. I have found them to be as accurate as any other gun I have tried so far.
Utimately, you have to decide what your budget will allow as you have to consider accessories such as cleaning kits and ammo when you figure your budget. Also, don't forget range fees. If you have done your research and are satisfied with the results of that research, then as has been said before, buy what you can afford and who cares what others think. In a way, we are all our own reviewers. I would guess that there is not one gun manufacturer that hasn't had some complaints and bad things written about them.

Debate eh? I can only ask one question...How much is your life worth? How bout the family? When you are looking for a weapon to fill this need cost should not even be an issue. No, a weapon does not need to cost a grand or more. Most of those high dollar pistols are target pieces anyway and do not work well for most anything else. Combat type weapons do. and many have the test of time to fall back on to show they are worthy.
What needs be considered is not as much fit and finish but fit to your hand and it's ability to function well....Always

Unlike Rockman's opinion the reason that many people buy a weapon, train as much as they can , get a carry permit, and carry that weapon with them is because they do believe that they might just have to use it. And in reply to your question

how many of you have honestly in your lives have been in situations where you NEEDED a gun to preaserve your life or someone elses?

more than you might think at first glance. I know many that have been in a bad situation and did not have the ability to protect themselves. I myself have been in situations where my weapon was a factor in how a situation played out. If you are going to be a CCW holder then the idea that you are just going to poke holes in paper and never really need your weapon in a defensive manner changes the status of that weapon to a plaything. I am comforted by the opinion that this is not an idea the majority of gun owners. And most do believe their weapon actually is a weapon though and it might just have to be used to save themselves or loved ones from a really bad alternative.

I am not one that will say a person should get this or they need to get that. I will advise they get what fits them. Make sure your weapon is comfortable in your hand and buy a caliber that does not make you uncomfortable. This is because when you don't have must time to think you shouldn't waste any of it wondering if your weapon is up to the task at hand. If it's too heavy, too big, too small, too complicated, too loud, too late. you're on the news. You get a weapon that fits you then you train to use it. A LOT. I'll bet many of the members of this forum do a good bit more trigger time than anyone would need to just have a little fun on weekends hunting paper targets. They work on stance, grip, drawing, trigger technique, and anything else they deem important to use their weapon well.

It take a little more than a gun in a drawer to "FEEL protected" The idea that the weapon will work and they can make it work is also pretty dang important. That's why we buy a weapon that we know will work properly. We take the time to get to know the weapon. And we spend the time to make sure we can use the weapon. Cost is not the issue. Quality is. That's why most here will say don't look to gun rags for a good review. Money has a way of changing peoples opinions. And those rag writers are in the business of making money.

I'm sure that Hi-Point has weapons out there that work pretty well. The bad reviews from people that shot them and/or owned them far outweighs the good though. And even if it was only say....20% of all the Hi-Points made were junk. That's still way too much for m,e to want to strap one of those top heavy but ugly (Come on..They make a Glock look good) weapons on my hip. If you can't trust your life to it then it's much more a liability than an asset. I don't know about anyone else but to me when I need my weapon is the wrong time to find out it's not going to work.

Originally Posted by PT92MJ

Personally, I have seen the hi-points in my local gun shop, but never fired one. I know people who have and their opinions are as varied as the ones on here. I guess what it really boils down to is what you want the gun for and what can you honestly afford. I own a couple of Taurus, which are in the $400 to $600 range and considered a POS by some. I have found them to be as accurate as any other gun I have tried so far.
Utimately, you have to decide what your budget will allow as you have to consider accessories such as cleaning kits and ammo when you figure your budget. Also, don't forget range fees. If you have done your research and are satisfied with the results of that research, then as has been said before, buy what you can afford and who cares what others think. In a way, we are all our own reviewers. I would guess that there is not one gun manufacturer that hasn't had some complaints and bad things written about them.

Sadly Taurus is a victim of their history. And they did build some not so good weapons in the past and did not take good care of customers when they looked to the company to right the wrong. On te up side they have been making (at least to me) some really good pistols lately. After a few hit and miss attempts 10+ years ago the ones I tried lately have been great. I own a pair of PT1911's now and I think they are some of the better mid range 1911's out there. For the cost there are fantastic! I think the service was their biggest mistake. I mean, S&W had some not so good auto loaders back in the day bu their CS department has always been great.

Sure there are some people that think a pistol has to cost a lot but I personally think that many of these people do not carry those super high dollar models. Target guns are not good work horse weapons.

Originally Posted by Rockman

OK OK, I hear it now, I wouldn't bet my life on it. To that I ask , how many of you have honestly in your lives have been in situations where you NEEDED a gun to preaserve your life or someone elses?

I have, and I'm glad I trusted a quality gun. Luckily, I didn't have to fire, but I'm glad the slide didn't fall off all on it's own when I drew the gun. Yeah, like I said earlier, I saw a Hi-Point disassemble itself... no thanks.

The other thing people say is "It's better than nothing". I'd disagree. If someone is having trouble gathering up $600 instead of $150, they are probably going to have trouble gathering up money for practice ammo. A gun that doesn't get shot (practiced with) is nothing more than a paperweight. A person might get a shot off, but it'll be more luck than anything else if they hit what they're pointing the gun at.

Canvass your local gun stores and pawn shops and purchase a used .357 magnum REVOLVER. This will give you immediate home protection at a reduced price.
Then start saving for a semi-auto of the "better quality" genre'.

Originally Posted by zhurdan

I have, and I'm glad I trusted a quality gun. Luckily, I didn't have to fire, but I'm glad the slide didn't fall off all on it's own when I drew the gun. Yeah, like I said earlier, I saw a Hi-Point disassemble itself... no thanks.

The other thing people say is "It's better than nothing". I'd disagree. If someone is having trouble gathering up $600 instead of $150, they are probably going to have trouble gathering up money for practice ammo. A gun that doesn't get shot (practiced with) is nothing more than a paperweight. A person might get a shot off, but it'll be more luck than anything else if they hit what they're pointing the gun at.

EXACTLY!

You have to do more than buy a weapon and toss it on the nightstand drawer. I have run into a lot of people that have made thew run to the gun shop in the post 11/04 rush and too many of them are just wanting to get some weapon then put it up in case they need it. Not interested in training. Not interested in practicing with it. They think they will just turn into Clint E. when they say "Excuse me while I whip this out!" or worse they will just be able to wave it around a little and any threat will just go away. These are the people I fear that will get news time rather as a statistic or for doing something that could have been easily avoided if they had just taken a little time to learn a few things and expel a little effort to learn safety and proficiency.

I'm glad more people are getting interested in gun ownership. just wish more would learn more how to handle their weapon properly as well as take more time to pick their weapon than they did picking out the checks they used to pay for it.

And they say a Glock is fugly...!

Hi-point is an oxymoron for one of the lowliest pistol made!

Yeah, if your gonna spend good money on a bad gun why not buy a car with an oil leak, cracked muffler, bald tires and damaged axle...if it runs then it gets you there all the same anyway.


---

Spend your money on a good pistol. There are many out there.

Save your money and buy some pepper spray. At least you know it will work when you need it to. I would hate to see someone pull a gun on another armed man, and have that very gun jam or worse. If that happens your in some serous trouble.

Originally Posted by DevilsJohnson

I beg to differ . I am in no way a gun snob and I believe anyone that has any working knowledge of my posting history can attest to that. I gave my opinion from the experiences with the weapon. No, I have not owned one. I did got my hands on a Hastings (the pre high point highpoint), and it was the same as the several I have been able to see fire or have fired myself. Two of those I got the displeasure to shoot were new in the box.

Before you start tossing out accusations you might want to look at the posts and read them for what they are.From what I've seen no one has said anything about them being cheap priced so they are crap. I've sen people that made observations based on their experiences.

As for me I have been shooting for many years and have been doing much of my own work for several years on my 1911's. One of which is a PT1911 that gets a bad wrap because it's a Taurus. You will see on these boards that most the people that have a little history here will give a good report on a weapon and wont trash it just because the weapon didn't cost 1500.00 bucks.

My review stands on it's own merits. It comes from a good bit of experience with the weapon(s) in question and a pretty dang good working knowledge of handguns in general and how they work. If I didn't have the experiences I would have said so or just not posted. I find it foolish to make unfounded statements and it undermines my credibility. And for me that's a pretty bog deal. You got a good one...Great...I hope it keeps being "flawless". I pray it does really.I 'd hate to hear it didn't the one time you night need it.

The only "accusation" I tossed out was that Most [not all] people who put down HP's haven't owned one or are gun snobs. You said that you haven't owned one. Sorry if you feel that undermines your credibility. Come to think of it, you seem to be undermining mine.

Like you, I have been shooting for many years [40+ in my case], and I have also done my share of work on various guns, all semi's. From my list I own and have owned a wide variety of guns, nearly all of which I have worked on at on time or another. I left out an H&K, two S&W's and a CZ that I sold. As you said, I stand by my "review" of my three [not one] HP's, through which I have put 2000 - 2500 rounds down range.

Originally Posted by Viper

...I stand by my "review" of my three [not one] HP's, through which I have put 2000 - 2500 rounds down range.

Perhaps that's where the difference in opinion comes in. 2000-2500 rounds is just a break in for most of my pistols. I've gone thru cases upon cases of primers and other reloading supplies for my pistols. Perhaps, even as asthetically unpleasant as they are, the Hi-Point is good for a few thousand rounds over it's lifetime. But, for the hard shooters in the group, I'd say that if you plan on a pistol for serious work/practice/competition... then definately go with a higher quality piece. But, if you want to be able to use a gun as a survival tool***, hell yeah, buy a Hi-Point.



***Definition in this instance -
***Survival tool - An impliment that can be used for many things aside from it's original purpose, such as:
***1. Boat anchor
***2. Tomahawk
***3. Door stop
***4. Blunt clubbing device
***5. Scary looking object to scare off bad guys
***6. Anvil
***7. Hammer
***8. Gangster camoflage
***9. Auxiliary antenna
***10. Airplane wheel chock
***11. Surplus ammo can opener
***12. Cloths iron
***13. Wobbly chair fixer-upper
***14. Weight training device
***15. Stew stiring stick
***16. Cattle brand
***17. Melted down into enough metal to make a small European car
***18. Replacement kickstand for motorcycles

and many many more uses, just like WD40!!!

Originally Posted by Viper

The only "accusation" I tossed out was that Most [not all] people who put down HP's haven't owned one or are gun snobs. You said that you haven't owned one. Sorry if you feel that undermines your credibility. Come to think of it, you seem to be undermining mine.

Like you, I have been shooting for many years [40+ in my case], and I have also done my share of work on various guns, all semi's. From my list I own and have owned a wide variety of guns, nearly all of which I have worked on at on time or another. I left out an H&K, two S&W's and a CZ that I sold. As you said, I stand by my "review" of my three [not one] HP's, through which I have put 2000 - 2500 rounds down range.

I wasn't attacking anything about you. I did take notice of the snob comment and think it was directed at bad comments in this forum about the pistol in the topic of this thread. I thought I'd just make iot clear that snobbery had nothing to do with the bad comments. It's just a poorly made weapon that was never designed to be a self defense tool. It seems to be made more for a use it untill it messes up then toss it away. A Bic lighter among guns.

You're right, I've not owned one. Trying out a few of them and seeing that they made a better weight to hold my targets down than they did for poking holes in them pretty much helped made that decision for me.

A pistol is as much an investment as it is a tool to get the job you buy it for done.I don't want to have to keep replacing it because after it gets through a few boxes of ammo. I'll spend a little more and have one my kids can give their kids and that's after do my best to put every round I can get my hands on. The only old HP I've actually seen was a Hastings (the HP before they were HP). That thing I couldn't get through a mag without some kind of hang up.

So no, I haven't spent the money. I didn't have to. I got the lesson before hand. You don't always have to buy the pile to know it's a turd. That has nothing to do with the cost. If anyone can find me a NIB pistol that is able to handle countless thousands of rounds and still be flawless for 150.00 I'll jump all over it. If I could find one used for that money I'd get it. Like Zur was saying 2000 rounds is nothing to a well made weapon. It's still new. Tell me how well the Three (not one) HP is doing when you get to 4-5 times that. If they are any good then they should be in their groove by then. and you will be the first I've ever heard of that could get anywhere near there. The several I've had the displeasure of trying to shoot and the few that got to try to work on were done before they got to 2500 rounds The new ones couldn't get through a mag without a FTF, FTE.

Wow, Didn't know it would spark so much debate. I was only going to keep in in the vehicle, just to have it there. I have my Glock 27 as my regular carry weapon and My SW357V for the home. I was only going to use as a glovebox gun and some range fun. Not as my only weapon for Self Defense. But it sure made for some good reading.

I / we own a Hi Point Carbine that I bought for my son to begin his shooting experience.

We have shot it a lot at the range and in the great outdoors and I have enjoyed the carbine so much.

We have never experienced a jam or brakeage or it falling apart.

It's strictly a plinking gun - like some of the .22's we shoot.

I'd never use it for anything other than plinking.

Inexpensive, and cheaply made (how could it be otherwise at it's sales price).

Just my .02 worth.

I've had a C9 for a little over 1 1/2 months now. After countless FTF and FTE I'm already trying to find a buyer.

Originally Posted by DevilsJohnson

I wasn't attacking anything about you. I did take notice of the snob comment and think it was directed at bad comments in this forum about the pistol in the topic of this thread. I thought I'd just make iot clear that snobbery had nothing to do with the bad comments. It's just a poorly made weapon that was never designed to be a self defense tool. It seems to be made more for a use it untill it messes up then toss it away. A Bic lighter among guns.

You're right, I've not owned one. Trying out a few of them and seeing that they made a better weight to hold my targets down than they did for poking holes in them pretty much helped made that decision for me.

A pistol is as much an investment as it is a tool to get the job you buy it for done.I don't want to have to keep replacing it because after it gets through a few boxes of ammo. I'll spend a little more and have one my kids can give their kids and that's after do my best to put every round I can get my hands on. The only old HP I've actually seen was a Hastings (the HP before they were HP). That thing I couldn't get through a mag without some kind of hang up.

So no, I haven't spent the money. I didn't have to. I got the lesson before hand. You don't always have to buy the pile to know it's a turd. That has nothing to do with the cost. If anyone can find me a NIB pistol that is able to handle countless thousands of rounds and still be flawless for 150.00 I'll jump all over it. If I could find one used for that money I'd get it. Like Zur was saying 2000 rounds is nothing to a well made weapon. It's still new. Tell me how well the Three (not one) HP is doing when you get to 4-5 times that. If they are any good then they should be in their groove by then. and you will be the first I've ever heard of that could get anywhere near there. The several I've had the displeasure of trying to shoot and the few that got to try to work on were done before they got to 2500 rounds The new ones couldn't get through a mag without a FTF, FTE.

OK, OK, maybe I jumped too fast, but I get tired of hearing people jump on HP with only antidotal or second hand experience, especially since mine have performed well. I haven't had mine long enough to put more rounds through them, but one guy on another forum "claimed" to have 25,000 through a C9, before he sent it back for repair. They sent a new pistol, free of course. HP will repair any of their guns free for life, and I know that is a fact.

I use the C9 for a car gun, and it's proved itself perfect for that - dependable and rugged. The carbines are just for fun, and fun they are out to about 100m. When I carry, I carry a P11 in the summer and a Sig in the winter.

Originally Posted by Viper

OK, OK, maybe I jumped too fast, but I get tired of hearing people jump on HP with only antidotal or second hand experience, especially since mine have performed well. I haven't had mine long enough to put more rounds through them, but one guy on another forum "claimed" to have 25,000 through a C9, before he sent it back for repair. They sent a new pistol, free of course. HP will repair any of their guns free for life, and I know that is a fact.

I use the C9 for a car gun, and it's proved itself perfect for that - dependable and rugged. The carbines are just for fun, and fun they are out to about 100m. When I carry, I carry a P11 in the summer and a Sig in the winter.

Viper,
I look at it this way. I have a Bushmaster rifle. It functions extremely well under hard firing. I've put 500-800 rounds at a session thru it with narry a problem. Some parts in any gun are what many call "consumables", meaning they'll need to be replaced from wear. Now, I used to get defensive when I'd hear people say that "Bushmasters suck, get a Colt", until I took the time to figure out why they were saying that. There's lots of little reasons that Colts are better, or Noveske's are better. They're tested more than Bushmaster rifles, thus leading to better quality control.

That whole time though, I had a Bushy that ran like a raped ape! But, I had a sample of one. MY Bushmaster works well. MY Bushmaster hadn't given me any trouble. Basically though, many Bushmasters have some issues. Are they going to show up to the once a month plinker? Probably not, but they may show up for the person who's putting 500-800 rounds a month thru their rifles. Whereas the Colts/Noveske's that had more testing and QC aren't as likely to have those issues.

Anyways, because I'm short of time right now.... You might have a good one, but overall, there's some really bad stories out there and some serious lack of quality control on the Hi-Point line of firearms. You may have a sample of one that works well, but opinions are generally much closer to the truth if they aren't based on a sample of just one.

I'm a big fan of Hipoints. Just look at my Avatar.

I owned one for about a month and then sold it, not my favorite.

http://handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=21075

Check out this thread- Hi Points suck. if you want something cheap and reliable you're better off with a slingshot and some stones from the driveway