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  1. #26
    akr
    akr is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeb21 View Post
    I agree.
    I agree as well.

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  3. #27
    Razorback58's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, that is exactly the kind of information that I was looking for, thank you! I'll keep your information under advisement.

  4. #28
    tekhead1219's Avatar
    tekhead1219 is offline Senior Member
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    I agree with Devils J...I prefer an XD 45 for EDC, but, southeast Tx weather is not always conducive to wearing clothing to cover it properly. In the summers, I changed to carrying a compact 9mm and feel just as safe with the 9 as the 45 for defensive purposes. Also have a Ruger LCP that I carry when I have to leave the 9mm at home. The LCP is more of a BUG though and not used often at all for primary protection. Just my .02.

  5. #29
    babs's Avatar
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    Nice thing about the choices out there today in the different models, you can pick and choose among about any of the big auto rounds in any size gun down to the little subcompacts... Walther PPS .40 comes to mind. Even sub-compact .45's out there from several companies. But with all that choice, I agree, it does make it a little confusing when you've got three identical guns staring at you in the case, all in different calibers.. What to do??!?! ...carry at least one of 'em and be proficient with whichever you carry.

    Darn.. Couldn't find a little "dead horse" smiley.

  6. #30
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by babs View Post
    Darn.. Couldn't find a little "dead horse" smiley.
    Here you go.

    deadhorsebeat_4.gif

  7. #31
    tekhead1219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babs View Post
    ...carry at least one of 'em and be proficient with whichever you carry.
    +1...

  8. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by babs View Post
    Darn.. Couldn't find a little "dead horse" smiley.
    ....a few more for you to choose from............






  9. #33
    NRA.Hog is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    Not picking here, but just a bit of my crazy logic for your consumption. If you are concerned that a moving target is going to be hard to hit, wouldn't you want more chances to hit it? (aka larger magazine capacity) A 9mm gives you that in most cases. Personally, I carry a .45 or .357Sig, depending on the situation (clothing).

    If you are concerned about shooting at things that are moving, try this. Tie a balloon or two to a 4-5' tall stake in front of a good backstop with about 3' or string. On a signal, draw and fire one well aimed shot. It helps in tracking moving targets (wind cooperating of course). It's a fun excersize.

    Zhur
    All I can say is this, you weren't there and you didn't see what I saw. And yes it is fun to do those neat little drills but this goober had not read the book of rules. Nothing he did was normal including the dancing and the talking to God.

  10. #34
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRA.Hog View Post
    All I can say is this, you weren't there and you didn't see what I saw. And yes it is fun to do those neat little drills but this goober had not read the book of rules. Nothing he did was normal including the dancing and the talking to God.
    Still looking for where I said I was there and saw what you saw....

    I was simply pointing out that in the event someone is moving erratically, and it is required to shoot them, it might be beneficial to have more rounds available before having to reload. (that's why I said "Not picking here")

    Zhur


    PS... What part of Wyoming are you from?

  11. #35
    ZO6Vettever is offline Junior Member
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    I carry a 16+1 9mm and went for the hi-cap 9 because of cheap 9mm ammo. A 14+1 40 would have been a better choice for self defense. After two, three hundred FMJ's and a few mags of your favorite JHP's you're set. The ammo cost should not have been a factor in my decision. Just my two cents.

  12. #36
    TheManRSW is offline Junior Member
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    I actually found a very interesting article about this just the other night. The article is written by an fbi agent and talks about caliber, shot placement, and wound track. It's quite a long read, but informative imho.

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

  13. #37
    ECHOONE is offline Junior Member
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    I personally wouldn't go any smaller then a .38 or 9mm

  14. #38
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    Talking Is it just for carry or will it be for home protection too?

    If it is just for carry only, I definitely understand the accuracy in placement.
    But I also want the stopping power.

    If it is also going to be the handgun, I grab to defend my home. I don't necessarily want to have to patch the side of the house, because my cannon's bullet went through the wall.

    I really have appreciated the question and the replies
    thebakers



    Personally I have a beretta px4 storm 40 s/w

  15. #39
    Oldman's Avatar
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    Well......

    Shot placement is certainly important but the caliber used can make that placement more critical.

    There are only a few reasons for someone to immediately fall when hit. Each of those reasons are very small in size.

    As a very well know gunner once said, "If a man does not fall when you shoot him, it could well be said that he is not impressed with your caliber of choice."

    It is also true that .22 bullets have killed more people than any other caliber but that is due to the sheer numbers of them out there.

    I have also seen a 6' 210 pound man take 13 hits from 9mm police sidearms before he finally fell.

    I have never seen anyone hit by a .45 or .357 remain standing after being hit.

  16. #40
    JeffWard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRA.Hog View Post
    Let me start with a story and then I will answer your question. Three weeks ago I was in a situation where I had to pull my gun along with one other guy. The guy causing the problem had a bat, weighed about 320 lbs, and was moving in every direction at once chasing his wife.
    I know everyone says it's all about shot placement and for them it is fine, but as far as me I was just thinking I hope I can hit this guy somewhere if he doesn't stop.
    It was at that point I was really doubtful if my 9mm would stop him so I decided that from now own I would carry nothing less than the biggest stick I could in hopes that it does have stunning and stopping power. For me that is a 45.

    Since then I have also started practicing drawing and I hit the range at least once a week. And I hate to say it but everyone needs to be in a real situation at least once to show them their weak spots.
    Based on what evidence? Not conjecture. Evidence.

    If I'm facing a guy with a bat, I assume I'll have to hit him MANY times, unless I get lucky with a spinal hit. No matter what gun I'm carrying. I can get more accurate hits in with my 9mm M&P Compact than I can with any 45. And with my extended mag, I have 18 chances to make a spine shot...

    JW

  17. #41
    Oldman's Avatar
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    Caliber example

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30268741/?gt1=43001

    This article shows the importance of caliber choice. Fortunately for the victim, the perp used the wrong caliber.

    Police depts over the country have abandoned the 9mm in favor of the .40. Each person has their own opinion of favorite calibers but the caliber choice can be critical to bullet placement as well as shock value.

  18. #42
    bill111444 is offline Junior Member
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    Smile

    9mm is fine. Or bigger.

  19. #43
    Black Metal's Avatar
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    While looking at energy specifically there is little difference between 9mm and .45 acp. To achieve "HYDROSTATIC SHOCK" you need to impose enough energy to cause a spike in blood pressure which should cause at least a temporary loss of consciousness. Both the 9mm and .45 acp have a very hard time achieving 500 ft-lbs of energy at the mussel. This is one of the main reasons I decided to switch from carrying a 9mm to .357 sig.

    This taken from Wikipedia

    Ammunition selection for self-defense, military, and law enforcement

    In self-defense, military, and law enforcement communities, opinions vary regarding the importance of remote wounding effects in ammunition design and selection. In his book on hostage rescuers, Leroy Thompson discusses the importance of hydrostatic shock in choosing a specific design of .357 Magnum and 9x19mm Parabellum bullets.[65] In “Armed and Female,” Paxton Quigley explains that hydrostatic shock is the real source of “stopping power.”[66] Jim Carmichael, who served as shooting editor for Outdoor life magazine for 25 years, also believes that hydrostatic shock is important to “a more immediate disabling effect” and is a key difference in the performance of .38 Special and .357 Magnum hollow point bullets.[67] In “The search for an effective police handgun,” Allen Bristow describes that police departments recognize the importance of hydrostatic shock when choosing ammunition.[68] A research group at West Point suggests handgun loads with at least 500 ft-lbs of energy and 12 inches of penetration and recommends:[69]

    One should not be overly impressed by the propensity for shallow penetrating loads to produce larger pressure waves. Selection criteria should first determine the required penetration depth for the given risk assessment and application, and only use pressure wave magnitude as a selection criterion for loads meeting minimum penetration requirements. Reliable expansion, penetration, feeding, and functioning are all important aspects of load testing and selection. We do not advocate abandoning long-held aspects of the load testing and selection process, but it seems prudent to consider the pressure wave magnitude along with other factors.

  20. #44
    rimler's Avatar
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    380 would be the smallest I would carry for self-protection. In a pinch, though, something is better than nothing. I prefer to carry a 9MM or 40 S&W

  21. #45
    rimler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldman View Post
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30268741/?gt1=43001

    This article shows the importance of caliber choice. Fortunately for the victim, the perp used the wrong caliber.

    Police depts over the country have abandoned the 9mm in favor of the .40. Each person has their own opinion of favorite calibers but the caliber choice can be critical to bullet placement as well as shock value.
    Wow is all I can say.

  22. #46
    hideit's Avatar
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    i think anyone with a CCP should have a .380 in their pocket
    have you noticed how many manufacturers are now making .380's?
    keltec was making 52,000 a year - that is 1,000 every week so first Ruger competed in 2009 and by now many manufacturers are making them - rumor is S&W might be coming out in an M&P 380
    i like the new sig sauer in 380- looks like the colt mustang

    for main carry piece - 9mm and up - the choice is wide open - 9mm is obviously the most popular and the cheapest round

  23. #47
    sheepdog is offline Banned
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    ...I have relied on a .22 revolver with short HP in it...if my choice had to be .22 now, I'd use stingers...my favorite defense caliber is .45ACP...anything in between would work if it had to...if I do my part...my LEAST favorite in that spread would be .25ACP....

  24. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRA.Hog View Post
    Let me start with a story and then I will answer your question. Three weeks ago I was in a situation where I had to pull my gun along with one other guy. The guy causing the problem had a bat, weighed about 320 lbs, and was moving in every direction at once chasing his wife.
    I know everyone says it's all about shot placement and for them it is fine, but as far as me I was just thinking I hope I can hit this guy somewhere if he doesn't stop.
    It was at that point I was really doubtful if my 9mm would stop him so I decided that from now own I would carry nothing less than the biggest stick I could in hopes that it does have stunning and stopping power. For me that is a 45.

    Since then I have also started practicing drawing and I hit the range at least once a week. And I hate to say it but everyone needs to be in a real situation at least once to show them their weak spots.
    I chose the 357 SIG S/A XD Tactical for my big stick. It is a matter of confidence in whatever caliber you choose.

  25. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razorback58 View Post
    I'm not trying to start a big debate here, but what is the smallest caliber pistol that you would use for your main carry, and why?
    The 9 MM is the Minimum that I would carry for personal protection / Self defense.

  26. #50
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    While I'd like to carry no less than a 9 mm - I switched to .380 (9mm short) about 2 years ago.

    I carry my Ruger LCP in a DeSantis Nemesis Holster in my front pocket more and more.




    If it's cold (coat) I'll still carry my .45 or 9 mm, but no where near as often as I used to.

    I'm getting lazy


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