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Thread: .45 Luger

  1. #1
    Marcus99 is offline Member
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    .45 Luger

    The story I knew of the .45 Luger was that DWM made a handful of them for the U.S. Army to test back in 1911. Most were destroyed and the other few got lost in history. However, I saw one today at a gun show. I was pretty surprised, the seller told me that DWM made small batches of them from time to time and that they're very rare (he wanted to sell it of course). It was going for around $4k which I thought was rather low for a gun that rare according to the seller. I thought you guys might be interested, here's a pic. Sorry for the large size, but the quality of my phone's camera isn't good to begin with and I figured you guys would want a good look.



    larger size:
    http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2980/image336.jpg
    Last edited by bruce333; 03-14-2010 at 08:10 AM. Reason: reduced pic & link to large size

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    bruce333's Avatar
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    At that price it's one of John Martz's Lugers.
    John Martz, in California does this by taking two 9mm Lugers, then cutting the frames in half lengthwise, then re-welding the two larger halves back together to get a frame big enough for the 45 Auto. There are a few smiths in Europe that do the same.
    There is no way in hell someone would be selling a genuine DWM .45 Luger at a gun show. It would be at one of the high price auction houses, if it was for sale at all.
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    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    I dunno. I know some dealers that go to a few shows a year with some pretty high dollar stuff. The don't go to many being the average gun show buyer is looking for a Ruger P89 or a Glock 19. but there's a couple shows where a few of them will all set up in one area and have some really nice stuff. You wont even get it out of the case though unless you're showing some pretty deep pockets.

    As to this one in the pic I wouldn't be able to say it is what it says or not without getting my hands on it. Nice find if it is though for sure. It's a pretty good copy if it isn't though. From what I can see anyway.

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    bruce333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus99 View Post
    ... the seller told me that DWM made small batches of them from time to time ...
    I've never heard that before.

    A genuine DWM .45 caliber Luger is one of the holy grails of collectors, as the only ones ever made were for the Army trials.

    In addition to John Martz, Mike Krause of Krausewerke was making .45 Lugers (handmade from drawings) but he was selling them for around $15000 each.
    Bruce, Life Member: NRA, NCRPA, GRNC, GOA

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    Marcus99 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce333 View Post
    I've never heard that before.

    A genuine DWM .45 caliber Luger is one of the holy grails of collectors, as the only ones ever made were for the Army trials.

    In addition to John Martz, Mike Krause of Krausewerke was making .45 Lugers (handmade from drawings) but he was selling them for around $15000 each.
    The Year of manufacture that he had listed on the tag was 1921.

    If you copy the picture I posted to your computer and then zoom in to the tag so that it takes up the entire screen and then stand back a ways you can make out most of what it says and you'll see 1921 on the forth line of information.

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    James NM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce333 View Post
    I've never heard that before.

    A genuine DWM .45 caliber Luger is one of the holy grails of collectors, as the only ones ever made were for the Army trials.

    In addition to John Martz, Mike Krause of Krausewerke was making .45 Lugers (handmade from drawings) but he was selling them for around $15000 each.
    I think Bruce is right on here. I've never heard of DWM putting the .45 Luger back into production at any time. As I recall, it is thought they made exactly Two of them. They were both manufactured for the US Army trials - one for the test and the second as a backup. The one tested was thought to be destroyed after the test. The second one?? Who knows.

    An original DWM 45 Luger is considered to be one of - if not the most - valuable and rare handgun of all time. There's no way some gun show hack happened to have the most valuable handgun in the world sitting on his table.

  7. #7
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    I am pretty sure James and Bruce are both right. There were only a few of these pistols made. There was something on the History Channel about these pistols once.

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    bruce333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James NM View Post
    As I recall, it is thought they made exactly Two
    of them. They were both manufactured for the US Army trials - one for the test and
    the second as a backup. The one tested was thought to be destroyed after the
    test. The second one?? Who knows.
    2 are know to exist. Accounts vary
    as to how many were made, either 4 or 6. #1 and #2 were sent to the US, the rest
    kept at the factory. #1 is presumed destroyed after, or as a result of, testing. #2
    owned by Sidney Aberman was bought from SA shortly after WWII. Another gun turned up in Canada
    in the '60s, eventually bought by oilman R.W. Norton and is on display at the R.W.
    Norton Gallery in Shreveport LA.
    Bruce, Life Member: NRA, NCRPA, GRNC, GOA

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    gunrunner1132 is offline Junior Member
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    The Luger pictured in this thread is NOT a Martz version. His were cut and welded together to make a wider version. This gun is NOT cut and welded. It has a 7 inch barrel, and other than the DWM 1921 markings, it has no serial numbers, and only has "45" marked in three places on the frame and under the slide as well as "11.35mm" marked beneath the chamber. The workmanship is of the highest quality. The gun was obtained from a collection in MA with the story that it MAY have been made for Stoeger as a salesman's sample. Any other info is lacking as far as who made it and when. The gun has just sold to a fellow collector. I was the dealer who had the gun at the Springfield, MA gunshow. It OBVIOUSLY was NOT an original 45 Luger, but just one more mysterious piece in the very convoluted story of 45 Lugers and their copies.

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    Thanks for clearing this up for us!
    Bruce, Life Member: NRA, NCRPA, GRNC, GOA

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    SARAKARA is offline Junior Member
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    Luger .45

    I recently enherited a luger .45, does anyone know the value

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SARAKARA View Post
    I recently enherited a luger .45, does anyone know the value
    Does anyone know any details about it?

  13. #13
    dosborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SARAKARA View Post
    I recently enherited a luger .45, does anyone know the value




  14. #14
    bruce333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SARAKARA View Post
    I recently enherited a luger .45, does anyone know the value
    If you read through this thread you'll see that there are copies around, as well as a cloudy history of the originals.
    Without a physical examination and a complete history (documented) it would just be a guess.
    Bruce, Life Member: NRA, NCRPA, GRNC, GOA

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    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus99 View Post
    The story I knew of the .45 Luger was that DWM made a handful of them for the U.S. Army to test back in 1911. Most were destroyed and the other few got lost in history. However, I saw one today at a gun show. I was pretty surprised, the seller told me that DWM made small batches of them from time to time and that they're very rare (he wanted to sell it of course). It was going for around $4k which I thought was rather low for a gun that rare according to the seller...
    As I understand it, there were six made by DWM, of which two remain intact.
    One of those two is now up for auction, and the reserve price is, I believe, $1.4 Million.
    That should tell you something about the price of the one you showed us, and the veracity of the seller.

    Back in the 1950s, somebody regularly made .45 ACP Lugers from 9mm Luger parts. There was an article in the Rifleman, if I remember correctly.
    The catch to these particular pistols was that there was no removable magazine. The guns loaded from the top of the open action, maybe using a Springfield stripper-clip.

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    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SARAKARA View Post
    I recently enherited a luger .45, does anyone know the value
    See my previous post.

  17. #17
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Correction:
    The one remaining privately-owned DWM .45 ACP Luger was just sold.
    Its expected sale price was to be "only" $1 Million; not the $1.4 Million, and not the "reserve price," I had originally reported here.
    It sold for just under $500,000.00.

  18. #18
    tvsjim is offline Junior Member
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    tvsjim

    I just read a post from MARCUS99 concerning a .45 luger in a case,complete with a picture of same.I would like to discuss this piece with MARCUS99 if posible.I can be reached at 336 682 0835.

    THANKS JIM

  19. #19
    tvsjim is offline Junior Member
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    I would appreciate a call to discuss .45 lugers.I have the one mentioned by MARCSUS99,WHOSE ORIGIN REMAINS A MYSTERY.Number is 336 682 0835,email is jim@techvid.tv.Thanks jim holladay

  20. #20
    tvsjim is offline Junior Member
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    I have several Luger .45 pistols,and I will be glad to discuss these at your leisure .You may reach me at 336 682 0835 or email jim@techvid.tv.JIM HOLLADAY

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