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  1. #1
    ruining is offline Junior Member
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    Can't get over trigger safety, only.

    I just picked up an M&P compact 9mm. I picked up a holster for it, and away I go. I'm on my way to go shooting it in the morning, and it feels really awkward to carry. I just can't get past the fact that it doesn't have a safety besides the trigger safety. I'm not sure I'll be able to carry it with one in the chamber at all when I have my son with me, just because I would hate to be pulling it out and have something come into contact with the trigger. I know that it's highly unlikely, but I'm used to a thumb safety and a mag safety. Do I just need to calm down? Ever hear of someone slipping while drawing? Should I just carry without one in the chamber?

    Maybe I'll feel better after putting a few hundred rounds though it tomorrow. Just a little freaky to have it cocked and in a holster while my two year old's head so close to it when we're walking together.

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  3. #2
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
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    Carrying without a round in the chamber is definitely not the answer.

    A holster covers the trigger guard, preventing anything at all from causing the gun to fire while in the holster. During a draw, your motions go against those that would cause anything to "get in there" and pull the trigger (except for your finger). If anything, something like this could happen when holstering the weapon, which if done properly, this still would never happen.

    This is an "issue" that bothers some people, and I say maybe these types of weapons just aren't for you. If a firearm with a manual safety would make you more comfortable, than purchase a different carry weapon. There's no sense in walking around uncomfortable, when there's an easy remedy (purchase a different firearm). The gun won't go bang unless the trigger is pulled. A gun in a holster sitting on a table, in a safe, in a drawer, in your pants or anywhere will not fire unless the gun is removed and the trigger is pulled. Basically, you need to make the decision of whether you're comfortable enough carrying the firearm. If not, you should change it.

    -Jeff-

    P.S. - If you'd feel safer carrying an XD, let me know.
    Last edited by BeefyBeefo; 12-21-2008 at 03:43 AM.

  4. #3
    ruining is offline Junior Member
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    I'll just see how things go after getting a few hundred rounds through it. I'll also be taking a CCW safety course with my wife. I have a good Galco holster that was made for the M&P, so I don't think I'll have to worry too much about anything "getting in there", but again, maybe I just need the experience.

    Thanks for the reply. I'll just have to sack up and deal with it. And keep my son on my left side.

  5. #4
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    Guns like that take a little getting used it. I think you'll see after the saftey course that you will acquire the needed info that will give you confidence to cally your weapon safe. Nut like my Beety friend says. They are not for everyone. Me? I'm the type that likes a hammer more on mine. I can carry others but I just feel more comfy with a (exposed) hammer. I got to pick up a few more of those M&P pistols today at a gun show. I do like the feel but again the hammer not there foes bother me a little. The Browning Pro/FNP pistols give me that poly frame so many like but they have a hammer and decocker. Maybe you might want to give one of those a look. Price is about there same as the M&P. Dang good shooters too

  6. #5
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    Beefy: you got an XD for sale?

    Ruining: Like the other two said, a gun, any gun, is only as safe as the individual that is handling it is. I have several handguns and I carry always with one in the chamber. When I first got my little Ruger LCP I was hesitant to carry with one in the pipe. After a range visit I realized how far I had to squeeze the trigger to make it go bang. Now there is always one in the pipe!

    That said, if you really find you are uncomfortable with yours not having a safety, then you either need to get rid of it or buy another gun. Seems silly to me that you did not give this thought when you purchased it.

    An XD is a good option, although it does not have a safe per say, it does have a trigger safe and a grip safe. Which means the gun really has to be gripped to make it go bang. Most Sigs don't have safes, the do have decockers though.

    If you choose to keep the present gun, do some discipline training. Do draw and reholster drills being cognizant of where your trigger finger is. During drawing and reholstering your trigger finger should lay against the slide, this needs to become a motor skill. This applies to any gun you handle. Guns accidently go bang because the trigger finger was where it should not have been. Good Luck!

  7. #6
    blue d is offline Junior Member
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    A few years age when I was getting into pistols I was "outraged" at the lack of a safety too. Suppose it was from the previous 50 years of shotguns and rifles, and the persistant safety training from my father and uncles.

    After a short period of time I realized that due to a different design in triggers, trigger operation, and holsters they were different from what I was Used to and all was well. If you think about it, a double action revolver operates the same.

    I feel that with time you will find the same. Practice often and get comfortable and familier with your equipment, then decide.

  8. #7
    Redwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plentyofpaws View Post
    If you choose to keep the present gun, do some discipline training. Do draw and reholster drills being cognizant of where your trigger finger is. During drawing and reholstering your trigger finger should lay against the slide, this needs to become a motor skill. This applies to any gun you handle. Guns accidently go bang because the trigger finger was where it should not have been. Good Luck!
    Very good advice, and a good holster will cover the trigger well completely so you cannot put your finger on the trigger till you draw it. Maybe consider moving your child to the other side of your CCW. I would also suggest you pick a room in your house void of all weapons and ammo, clear your weapon and 2 mags and practice your drawing and dry firing there. I only time I became concerned with carrying was when I just stuck it in my IWB without a holster. I bought a 9C for the wife's x-mas gift (dont tell her but I allready took it to the range) its allmost the same as my 40. When the s--t hits the fan your training will take over. Around the house I keep the chamber empty, Good Luck
    Last edited by Redwolf; 12-21-2008 at 11:34 AM.

  9. #8
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by plentyofpaws View Post
    Beefy: you got an XD for sale?
    To be honest, if someone offered to trade an M&P9c for it, I'd very likely do it. The trigger is disappointing to me now, everytime I pick it up (and after doing rapid fire, and other various drills beside my Glock). Also, I'm one to get sick of things (cars, etc) so, I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I'm just weird. Don't get me wrong, the XD is an excellent firearm, I guess I'm just at a point where I want to try out as many different guns/variants as possible.

    -Jeff-
    Last edited by BeefyBeefo; 12-21-2008 at 09:21 AM.

  10. #9
    ruining is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    Also, I'm one to get sick of things (cars, etc) so, I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I'm just weird. Don't get me wrong, the XD is an excellent firearm, I guess I'm just at a point where I want to try out as many different guns/variants as possible.

    -Jeff-
    Me too. Maybe it's in the name. I'm a Jeff, too. I can't keep the same car long enough to pay it off. I'm ready to get rid of my car and get an '80's toyota 4x4.

    Thanks for all the advice, guys. I just got back from shooting and feel like I got pretty used to it. I still have to make an effort when drawing to keep my finger clear of the trigger. I don't have an issue with it, but it's not yet muscle memory. I think with some dry fire drills in the house, I'll be feeling a lot better.

    I think the idea of keeping the chamber clear in the house, but carrying hot when I leave the house is the way to go.

    Thanks again. I'll be practicing in the house a lot over the next few months until it's second nature to pull it out quickly, smoothly and safely.

  11. #10
    ruining is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by plentyofpaws View Post
    Seems silly to me that you did not give this thought when you purchased it.

    I actually thought a lot about it when I was considering which gun to buy. I was going to go with a glock 26 and had given it a tremendous amount of thought. I also did a lot of reading on this site about carry guns and safety concerns. I figured that very few people gave it second thought. When it came right down to it, though, I loaded her up, ran one up the chamber and picked up my son to leave and just felt very awkward and hyper-sensitive. I'll get used to it.

  12. #11
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruining View Post
    Me too. Maybe it's in the name. I'm a Jeff, too.
    Uh-oh...not a third one!

    Quote Originally Posted by ruining
    Thanks for all the advice, guys. I just got back from shooting and feel like I got pretty used to it. I still have to make an effort when drawing to keep my finger clear of the trigger. I don't have an issue with it, but it's not yet muscle memory.
    After you take your CCW safety course, I would recommend some more professional training. That would help as well.

    You know the XD has a grip safety right? You sure you don't want it? Positive?

    -Jeff-



  13. #12
    Teuthis is offline Member
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    I do not like that "no-safety" feature either. That is why I also do not care for Glock. Those are not double action triggers, and those guns are cocked and absolutely must have holsters for safe carry. Even then, I would rather have a safety. I do not feel that I can drill enough with those pistols to make them safe for me to carry, or have about loaded.

    By the way, I have an M&P 9c and a Glock 36. I am strongly considering taking both of them to the gun show in January and trading them off. I have been thinking about it for a while since I find that I just keep them tucked away in their plastic cases. I do not question their accuracy or reliability; just their level of safety.

  14. #13
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    Teuthis & Ruining: No one is going to dis you because of your feelings. I owned a Glock 23 many years ago. The wife loved shooting it, but was leary about the no safe thing. So being a good hubby, I sold it. Bought her a nice (then) Beretta Cougar, she liked the gun, but every time she shot it, the brass came straight back to her. She was nervous about a hot casing hitting her face. So back to the drawing board. Sold the Cougar and bought her another Glock 23. She quickly accepted the "no safe" for a gun she felt comfortable with.

    I cannot tell you how many guns or how many $$$ I've been through. A lot of that due to liking the gun in the gun store. So now I kinda research a bit more. Sometimes I'm not that helps either!!!!

    My compromise is the Sig with the decock lever. This way I keep the gun hot, ready to rock and roll, and have the security of knowing the hammer can't fall!!!! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!!!

  15. #14
    ruining is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    You know the XD has a grip safety right? You sure you don't want it? Positive?

    -Jeff-

    I might have considered it if I hadn't just picked it up day before yesterday. I'm going to need quite a bit of time with it to get used to it. I know the XD has a grip safety. Not really ready yet, dude. Thanks, though.

  16. #15
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruining View Post
    I might have considered it if I hadn't just picked it up day before yesterday. I'm going to need quite a bit of time with it to get used to it. I know the XD has a grip safety. Not really ready yet, dude. Thanks, though.
    It was worth a try, wasn't it?

    -Jeff-

  17. #16
    bdp2000 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by plentyofpaws View Post
    Guns accidently go bang because the trigger finger was where it should not have been.
    Truer words have never been spoken!!!

  18. #17
    tekhead1219's Avatar
    tekhead1219 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    Uh-oh...not a third one!
    OH no...run, it's contagious!!

  19. #18
    seatmaker's Avatar
    seatmaker is offline Junior Member
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    I have the same concerns, that's why I prefer the Sig's.
    You've got the luxury of the decocking feature which allows a more resistant first trigger pull.

  20. #19
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    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    I actually have a lady I work with who was doing presentation, double action, decock and reholster with a Walther P99. It does not have external safeties either. She did make the mistake of getting complacent (her words) and got her finger stuck in between the holster and the trigger (her fault, not the guns) and put a round in and out of her right thigh. It's the same with any gun though, you just need to make sure you are clear of that trigger, if you aren't, you really can't blame anyone or anything, but yourself.

    I make sure that after I fire the shot (or shots) that I'm going to, my finger immediately goes out and up along the slide. I also make sure that when reholstering, I overexagerate getting my finger clear of the weapon as it slides into the holster. I have an XD 9mm, Glock 32C, Walther P99 and Kahr K40. Over as many years as I've had them, I've never even come close to accidentally tripping a trigger. The lady I knows firmly believes that it was her fault, not the guns fault.

    Learn your weapon, practice with it repeatedly (then some more), understand it's limitations, understand YOUR limitations, and never forget the importance of safety. You'll be fine as long as you do those things.

  21. #20
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    I carry a Kimber CDP II, a 1911 style gun. It took me much longer to get used to this than the XD 9SC I used to carry. I first carried a Ruger SP101 which is a double action revolver with no external safeties so the switch to the XD was easy. Now, I look down and can visually see that hammer cocked back and just waiting to fall in the cocked and locked position (see my avatar). It can be a bit disconcerting if you throw in the light trigger action and 1/4" of travel needed to fire the gun instead of the long pull on a double action gun. I have very good holsters for my CDP that cover the trigger well. It's a good thing too, once, after a bit of "around the house" work, I took my CDP off and the safety had gotten knocked to the down/off position. Goes to show you, the best safety is the one between your ears.

  22. #21
    Willy D's Avatar
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    My biggest fear is during those moments of duress when you have to draw and the thoughts all running through your head..fear, adrenaline, thoughts about what you are about to do or what you may have to do among other things:

    Pick these two guns:

    My XD...I have the gun in my hand (grip safety disengaged) and if you lose your fine motor skills for one brief fraction of a second and place your finger on the trigger inadvertantly and something makes you flinch. With one in the pipe it will not take very much at all in a slight movement on that trigger and BANG...people talk all the time about how you lose your fine motor skills under stress or duress...enough that you should not let it be that you have to chamber a round....

    Something else with a hammer and a safety or a decocker...gun has one in the chamber, you have it decocked...first shot is DA...in that moment of duress it would be a much more deliberate pull to make that heavy long pull on the trigger...

    I know that you are not supposed to put your finger on the trigger and when I holster and unholster and practice with dry fire...I do keep it out, but during those moments I am not facing the thought that in under a second I may be shot or shoot someone and possibly kill them...When I go to the range, I draw and bring up the gun on target. I don't engage the trigger untill I am ready to shoot...when I am done, finger out...Anyone who I take with me I am very strict about that point too....But in those moments of duress, I sure as hell would not want to lose that fine motor skill and have an AD...

    I know that if you train and repeat it and build muscle memory that you will do what you practiced...but it is still a scary thought to me...I carry my smith 642 DAO gun as a carry gun right now...

    IMO...it is much like carrying a revolver cocked and in a holster (carrying my XD with one in the pipe)

    Willy

  23. #22
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Safety-lever or no safety-lever isn't the real issue.
    The only real safety is inside your head.
    The lady who holed her thigh suffered from a mental lapse, and no safety device on the face of the Earth will preserve anybody from that.
    "Clicker" machines, hydraulic presses that slam down onto a die atop a leather hide to cut out the shape of a holster, are made with two triggers spread so wide apart that you can't hit both of them with only one hand. The idea is to force you to remove both of your hands from the press area before the ram comes down. But "clicker" operators routinely defeat these safety mechanisms in order to speed production. And "clicker" operators routinely lose fingers, and even whole hands.
    The only real safety is inside your head.

  24. #23
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    It dont matter what you have strapped to you. You don't want it to go off don't put your booger hook in the trigger guard. It don't take much training to be able to holster and upholster a weapon and not have a finger in there.

    it's just a good practice to get into. Dray your weapon and keep your finger outside the guard,acquire your target THEN get your finger in there. Getting in this habit can help with accidental discharge (yes ladies..it's not just for men anymore).

    That alone can make any pistol as safe as it needs to be. I can't count all the "Dirty Harry's" that grab their weapons - Finger wrapped around the trigger just waiting to put a hole in the leg...Or someone/something else.

    DJ says...Don't be a Dirty Harry, Don't stick your finger in there till it's time.

  25. #24
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    My Sigma has no safety either...... but it never really bothers me because it does not exactly have a hair trigger..... it is pretty long and hard compared to a lot of the other pistols out there.....

    I've just made sure to have a good holster, and I never draw with my finger anywhere near the trigger.....

  26. #25
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    You need to keep your trigger finger off of the trigger, even if your pistol has an effectively functioning safety lever.
    One: It's to set the habit. Always keep your finger off of the trigger until you really mean to shoot.
    Two: It's entirely possible that your pistol's safety has become non-functional, either through breakage or by accidentally having been wiped to "off" by your holster, your shirt, your thumb, or some other agent.

    Because of these and other considerations, long experience has proved to me that a safetyless double-action-only or "safe-action" trigger is actually much safer, in an adrenaline-induced panic, than is a single-action trigger system that includes a safety lever.
    (By "safer," in the above paragraph, I mean "less susceptible to accidental discharge.")
    "Traditional double-action" should be avoided. It is a botched abortion which requires the shooter to learn two separate trigger pulls, and to instantly switch between them while being distracted by a save-your-life fight. (Or the shooter learns to just throw away his first shot. Silly, huh?) As Jeff Cooper said, "It's a solution looking for a problem"; to which I add, "It's a bad solution without a real problem to solve."

    So, we're back to your brain, which is the only reliable, always-fully-functional safety mechanism in your entire arsenal. Train your brain to be safe, and any gun you pick up will be automatically rendered as safe as it possibly can be.

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