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  1. #21
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRob View Post
    Glock leg happens when you accidentally discharge into your leg or foot while drawing or holstering your Glock.
    There shouldn't be such a thing as "Glock leg" either. This type of scenario could happen with a Sig or HK or any other pistol for that matter, considering it is most commonly caused by operator error or improperly handling the pistol.

    -Jeff-

  2. #22
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRob
    I'm very familliar with Sig 226's, not so much with the HK's and it's been my experience the Sigs I've experienced were quite reliable.
    The Sig 226 is a great gun and very reliable. In my experience the Glock is more reliable.

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRob
    I'm not doubting your experience, or judgement, in fact, it appears my resume is thin compared to yours,
    I did not mean to imply that you did not believe me, sorry if it came off that way. By the way, are you on the job?

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRob
    that being said, when it comes to Glock, it seems you either are a G guy, or not a G guy. I'm simply not a G guy.
    Fair enough. I am very much a G guy, just in case there was any doubt. I would carry a Sig, H&K, Beretta or any of the other common duty weapons with no problem. They are all great guns. As long, however, as I am free to choose, I choose Glock.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRob
    What about the S&W M&P .40?
    I agree, you can't leave the M&P off the list.

    For me, a toss-up between the M&P and XD. I'm a huge XD fan, but my new M&P is growing on me.

    JW

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarmigan View Post
    I did not mean to imply that you did not believe me, sorry if it came off that way. By the way, are you on the job?

    Yes, I'm a newly Deputized Marshal here in Indiana

  5. #25
    Don357's Avatar
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    OK, "Glock Leg " can happen with any "Safe Action" trigger system such as is on the Glocks, S&W's, and several other pistols. After all the Sigma series S&W, is a copy/clone of the Glock. The Glock company even filed a suit against S&W when they first released the Sigma pistols. And I apologize about leaving the M&P off the list. It was meerly an oversight on my part. And also , as you can see, I left off the polymer framed 1911's. This was on purpose as they are a totally different animal.

    Now, I know that I'm going to catch some flak about this, but here are my findings so far.

    1) There is a definite bias in favor of Glock. But, those who are singing Glocks praises the loudest, have never tried much of anything else, and are going on the fact that because many LEO Depts issue them, they must be the best thing going. However, they are oblivious to the fact that civilian police depts operate on a municipal budget that is mandated by people who probably have never even held a gun, much less fired one or had to intrust their life to one. All they see is dollar signs. I'm not saying Glocks are bad guns, just not one I would buy or use unless I was like so many LEO's and forced to do so by my dept. Anyway, if they are so good, why doesn't the US military use them as the primary handgun of the US forces?

    2) There are as many opinions as there is stars in the sky. And while it's impossible to officially determine the age of many of the posters/members on this forum, judging from many of the posts I've read, alot of the "experience" some are basing their opinions on, come from RPG Video games. While others get it from "I saw in a movie...", or "So and so said..." and even "I read it on a forum". There are lots of legitimate opinions here and I value each one. We just have to be cautious about which ones we believe and do our own research too.

    3) There are lots of fantistic guns on the market, and many of them are being ignored and/or being put down because, a) they don't cost enough, b) there's a "guilt by association" thing (as in the case of Ruger and Bill Ruger's stance against hi-cap mags), which has absolutly nothing to do with the quality of the gun. And, c) they're just not cool looking or exotic enough. I run across this with guitars too.

    4) Many people have the mindset that their's is the only opinion that counts and anybody that thinks differently is stupid.


    OK, lets keep this going a while longer. I'm getting some great stuff, and will update my findings later.
    Thanks for participating,
    Don

  6. #26
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don357 View Post
    OK, "Glock Leg " can happen with any "Safe Action" trigger system such as is on the Glocks, S&W's, and several other pistols.
    I'm glad we agree on something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don357
    Anyway, if they are so good, why doesn't the US military use them as the primary handgun of the US forces?
    Among with many other requirements, I believe one of the requirements for the Military was a manual safety. That alone disqualifies the Glock (obviously). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don357
    2) There are as many opinions as there is stars in the sky. And while it's impossible to officially determine the age of many of the posters/members on this forum, judging from many of the posts I've read, alot of the "experience" some are basing their opinions on, come from RPG Video games. While others get it from "I saw in a movie...", or "So and so said..." and even "I read it on a forum". There are lots of legitimate opinions here and I value each one. We just have to be cautious about which ones we believe and do our own research too.
    I don't know if I've ever seen anyone on this forum reference an RPG or video game or a movie as "experience." Perhaps I overlooked a couple? If you have any links to the threads, I would love to see them. You are making a pretty big accusation here. I get quite sickened by individuals that completely disregard every other brand or model of firearm, but I rarely see that happen around here. I'm far from claiming that I have a ton of experience, but just like most of the people around here, I think there exists experience with a wide range of different firearms. Even those that rely on Glocks and speak so highly of them, most of those individuals have at least a fair amount of experience with other firearms. I just recently purchased my first Glock, and I can see the attraction. I'm not saying they are for everybody, because there exists not a single firearm for everyone, but something can be said about the reliability, accuracy, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don357
    3) There are lots of fantistic guns on the market, and many of them are being ignored and/or being put down because, a) they don't cost enough, b) there's a "guilt by association" thing (as in the case of Ruger and Bill Ruger's stance against hi-cap mags), which has absolutly nothing to do with the quality of the gun. And, c) they're just not cool looking or exotic enough. I run across this with guitars too.
    Just curious as to whether you're referencing this forum here? Again, I have very rarely, if ever, seen this type of thing on this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don357
    4) Many people have the mindset that their's is the only opinion that counts and anybody that thinks differently is stupid.
    See above. I agree that this exists out there in the world (not just the firearms world). I also think that it's completely ridiculous and an immature way of thinking. Having said that, you may be confusing some comments and recommendations with this immature activity/logic. I very well could be wrong, but at least around this forum, this very seldom happens.

    The reason I keep referencing this forum is because this "data" you're collecting is from this forum. I'm assuming this is what you mean by your "findings."

    Quote Originally Posted by Don357
    OK, lets keep this going a while longer. I'm getting some great stuff, and will update my findings later.
    Thanks for participating,
    Don
    I'll be interested to see what kind of "findings" you come up with from this thread.

    -Jeff-
    Last edited by BeefyBeefo; 12-08-2008 at 12:24 AM.

  7. #27
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    I don't know if I've ever seen anyone on this forum reference an RPG or video game or a movie as "experience."
    That's why I haven't participated in this thread so far. Call of Duty 4 only has the M9, USP, 1911, and Desert Eagle for pistols, so I don't have any experience with the Glock (unless they come up with a patch to add it). Now if you want to know about the M4, AK47, or MP5 I'm your man!

    Wait a minute, what forum am I logged into?

  8. #28
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Wait a minute, what forum am I logged into?

  9. #29
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRob
    Yes, I'm a newly Deputized Marshal here in Indiana
    Outstanding.

  10. #30
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    Beefy? What are you doing here on the game forum?

  11. #31
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don357
    Now, I know that I'm going to catch some flak about this, but here are my findings so far.

    1) There is a definite bias in favor of Glock. But, those who are singing Glocks praises the loudest, have never tried much of anything else, and are going on the fact that because many LEO Depts issue them, they must be the best thing going. However, they are oblivious to the fact that civilian police depts operate on a municipal budget that is mandated by people who probably have never even held a gun, much less fired one or had to intrust their life to one. All they see is dollar signs. I'm not saying Glocks are bad guns, just not one I would buy or use unless I was like so many LEO's and forced to do so by my dept. Anyway, if they are so good, why doesn't the US military use them as the primary handgun of the US forces?
    Don, why do you refuse to read my posts? I mean, you seem to ignore anything I write about reasons other than cost for Glocks being in good standing with LE. Also, me saying I like Glocks and being a retired cop does not indicate a "definite bias." Are you running this study on other sites as well and excluding the feedback you get there? Also, you "insight" in municipal budgets is a bunch of crap. You can't just assume that because it might be that way one place, it is like that everywhere. I would like to know what your background is. City manager, mayor, police chief, something along those lines? The line about the U.S. military not using Glocks is just silly. Speaking of low bid contract buying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don357
    2) There are as many opinions as there is stars in the sky. And while it's impossible to officially determine the age of many of the posters/members on this forum, judging from many of the posts I've read, alot of the "experience" some are basing their opinions on, come from RPG Video games. While others get it from "I saw in a movie...", or "So and so said..." and even "I read it on a forum". There are lots of legitimate opinions here and I value each one. We just have to be cautious about which ones we believe and do our own research too.
    Maybe I am reading between the lines too much, but are you trying to imply that I am some video game playing kid making stuff up? I get the feeling that you are, based on your use of "experience." I think I have been pretty open about my background and such. Let's hear what you bring to the table.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don357
    3) There are lots of fantistic guns on the market, and many of them are being ignored and/or being put down because, a) they don't cost enough, b) there's a "guilt by association" thing (as in the case of Ruger and Bill Ruger's stance against hi-cap mags), which has absolutly nothing to do with the quality of the gun. And, c) they're just not cool looking or exotic enough. I run across this with guitars too.
    Again, where in this thread are you seeing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don357
    4) Many people have the mindset that their's is the only opinion that counts and anybody that thinks differently is stupid.
    Like who? Who on this board and in this thread has displayed that kind of attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don357
    OK, lets keep this going a while longer. I'm getting some great stuff, and will update my findings later.
    Thanks for participating,
    Don
    Would you care to state your thesis and your method of research for this project of yours? It seems to me that you are not really paying much attention to what is being posted but, rather, have something to say. Why not cut all the "I am getting good stuff" and tell us what the point is? After all, the title of your thread is "To make a point." Please make it already.

  12. #32
    unpecador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Beefy? What are you doing here on the game forum?
    That's funny!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarmigan View Post
    Why not cut all the "I am getting good stuff" and tell us what the point is? After all, the title of your thread is "To make a point." Please make it already.
    +1

    Yes, please make your point, already!

  14. #34
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarmigan View Post
    After all, the title of your thread is "To make a point." Please make it already.
    +1! (That's a huge plus one)

    Let's get to the point and stop playing games, or one of us will put this thread out of its misery.

  15. #35
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    Among with many other requirements, I believe one of the requirements for the Military was a manual safety. That alone disqualifies the Glock (obviously). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

    -Jeff-
    The primary reason the Glock was not chosen during the M-9 contract (replacement of the M1911 and M38 as primary sidearm) bid AND the re-bid was that they didn't submit a candidate for evaluation/trials. The SiG didn't have a manual safety and actually out performed the Beretta in several areas of evaluation. SiG actually got selected by the Secret Service and SOCOM as their replacement for the M1911. SOCOM now chooses to have a little of everything available for training purposes. There is NO official word on what is issued when elements deploy, nor would I expect there to be.

  17. #37
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Growler67 View Post
    The primary reason the Glock was not chosen during the M-9 contract (replacement of the M1911 and M38 as primary sidearm) bid AND the re-bid was that they didn't submit a candidate for evaluation/trials. The SiG didn't have a manual safety and actually out performed the Beretta in several areas of evaluation. SiG actually got selected by the Secret Service and SOCOM as their replacement for the M1911. SOCOM now chooses to have a little of everything available for training purposes. There is NO official word on what is issued when elements deploy, nor would I expect there to be.
    Thanks for the clarification.

    -Jeff-

  18. #38
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    The Secret Service is not part of the military. I believe you mean CID, the Criminal Investigative Division. The Sig Sauer P228 is known as the M11 in the U.S. military.

    Also, I do not think SOCOM chose a sidearm so to speak. SF normally uses the M9, the SEALs the Sig Sauer P226, Delta whatever they want, some of the Marine units (now part of SOCOM) use a Kimber 1911 of some sort.

    My understanding is that the M9 is the official sidearm of the Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force, with the M11 being used for certain MOS and/or units. The H&K SOCOM, which is a huge .45ACP, is also used. It does seem that other sidearms are being used, and units like Delta can probably use whatever they want.

  19. #39
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    Umm..Where is the point and how do we get to it?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarmigan View Post
    The Secret Service is not part of the military.........The Sig Sauer P228 is known as the M11 in the U.S. military.
    I didn't say the SS was part of the Military. They chose the SiG in part because of it's performance in the M-9 competition. Also because it was smoother on the exterior (no apendages like external safeties and such) for ease in concealability without snagging on the draw. The Navy has the M-11 as one of the available options for their aviators to carry as a sidearm.

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