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Thread: 9MM ammo

  1. #1
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    9MM ammo

    Just read an article that said never, never, never use a 147 gr round in your 9MM. I own some, but will give it away. Will stick with 115 gr. Just bought a bulk box of UMC from Academy Sports for $52, I think that's good!

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    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Ummm...why? And where did you read this "article"?

    -Jeff-

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    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    O.K. here is my "article": 147 grain is just fine to use in your 9mm pistol. There, now you can keep it.

    147 grain 9mm rounds have a good street record with some very large law enforcement agencies such as LAPD and LASO. They work just as well as any other 9mm ammo. You have nothing to worry about.

    I am guessing you found that old online article by Chuck someone that said something about the 147 grain round being made for sub-guns etc. Very old article and the 147 grain round has been improved a lot since.

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    Where I got the info

    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    Ummm...why? And where did you read this "article"?

    -Jeff-
    Link: http://www.mouseguns.com/ammoart.htm

    Excerpts:
    AMMUNITION FOR THE SELF-DEFENSE FIREARM

    Opinion by Anonymous



    INTRODUCTION

    This is a guide to help you select the best ammunition for your defensive firearm. Most of these opinions are based upon the work of Massad Ayoob, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow, police officers who have extensively studied the issue of firearms, ammunition and stopping power. I refer all interested parties to the excellent series by Ayoob ('In the Gravest Extreme,''Stressfire,' 'The Semi-Automatic Pistol in Police Service and Self-Defense', 'Stressfire II: Advanced Combat Shotgun') and the comprehensive book 'Stopping Power' by Marshall and Sanow.


    9mm Parabellum (9mm Luger,9x19mm, 9mm NATO, or simply "9mm")

    This is unquestionably the world's most popular pistol round. For this reason it has been the subject of a lot of experimentation, because 9mm ball - used by every army in the Western world - is a mediocre manstopper. Jacketed hollowpoints are a must if one wishes to rely on the 9mm as a defense round. Use ball ammo for practice only.

    9mm ammunition is available in two pressure levels: standard and "+P." The latter should only be used in newer guns (made since 1985 or so), and is best used sparingly. I will deal here with only commercially available ammunition: there are specialized loads available only to law enforcement personnel. Civilians should not worry, as there are commercial loads as good or better than anything restricted to law enforcement usage.

    I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint. This is the most powerful and street-proven manstopper available in this caliber. It is a high velocity (1340 fps) and high pressure round, and more effective than any load restricted to law enforcement use (such as the Federal 9BPLE).

    Unfortunately, it is also likely to jam many older guns. For this reason I add a table at the end of the 9mm section discussing round suitability for different guns. Modern hollowpoints may either (a) jam, or (b) be too powerful for some older guns. This load is suitable only for First Class pistols (see table).

    The best standard pressure 9mm load is the Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP). Its effectiveness and accuracy make it the world standard. Buy several boxes. Other excellent standard pressure 9mm loads are the Winchester Silvertip 115 grain (X9MMSHP), Federal 124 grain Hydra-shok (P9HS1) and Federal Nyclad 124 grain (P9BP) JHP. The Nyclad may feed better (than the metal-jacketed 9BP) in some older guns - such as Browning Hi-Powers - which is good enough reason to use it in your older pistol. It is nearly equal to the excellence of the 9BP in terminal performance.

    For guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal 115 grain hollow-points, the Remington 115 grain +P JHP is a good choice (R9MM6). For older guns I would use the Remington standard pressure 115 gr. JHP (R9MM1).

    Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.

    German GECO "Blitz Action Trauma" or BAT 9mm rounds are a proven man-stopping design. Called the "GECO Action Safety" in Europe, this is a high velocity (1400 feet per second) lightweight (86 grain) hollow bullet that has proven itself to be reliable and successful on the street. I recommend them, but they are very tough to find. Save yourself the trouble and use good 115 grain hollowpoints like the Cor-Bon or Remington +P or Federal 9BP.

    Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given:

    Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS)
    Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2)
    Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147)
    Winchester 147 grain 9mm Black Talon JHP (S9MM)
    Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM)
    Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8)
    Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)
    Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7)
    Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light.
    CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP "Plated Hollow Point" (3619)

    I have some 165 gr as well that I will not be using any longer.

  6. #5
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Okay, you are definitely NOT supposed to use it.

    Since you're giving it away, I would love to take it off your hands. I'll pay shipping.

    -Jeff-

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    I use 147gr Federal HydraShoks exclusively as my SD/HD round and have for YEARS. Shoot them at the end of every range session to reenforce muscle memory and POA/POI memory too. Whatever you have that you are giving away, I'll step in line if there is any left. Some others asked first already I'll take the 165gr. I intend on getting a .357SIG reloading setup one day and can use them for such.

    "147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock."

    I don't know who this annonymous tool is, but I've never had any problems with them in my Beretta and my SiG's have digested everything from LRN, SJSWC, FMJ and yes JHP's without EVER having a Feed, Fire or Ejection failure. 100% reliable and this includes my 18 1/2 year old P226 still with it's original barrel. And before anyone asks, no I have not sloped the feed ramp on any of them. 2 are CPO's and their date codes are in my signature.

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    Todd is offline Banned
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    I've got 147gr in my XD9SC and it eats it just fine. Never one hiccup.

    I'll stick to my personal experience versus the opinion of some Internet expert named "Anonymous".

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    For what it's worth, that's a REALLY old article. For example, the "less than $200" Mossberg 500 shotgun the writer refers to is now more like $350-400. No mention of S&W M&P or FNP pistols, either. I wouldn't sweat it. Even if you prefer 115 or 124 grain hollow points for self defense, there's nothing wrong with using the 147s for target shooting. I tried one box of 147 grain ammunition in my FNP-9 and it worked fine (like every other kind of factory ammunition I've tried).

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    Come on guys, I'm trying to get some free ammo here!

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    Uh, sorry, I'm mistaken. Send it all to Jeff!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustRick View Post
    Uh, sorry, I'm mistaken. Send it all to Jeff!
    Exxxcellent....





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    Quote Originally Posted by plentyofpaws View Post
    I own some, but will give it away.
    To who?

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    Quote Originally Posted by unpecador View Post
    To who?
    To BeefyBeefo!


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    Quote Originally Posted by kev74 View Post
    To BeefyBeefo!

    yyyyeeesssss [/Mr. Burns]

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    And never use any 147 grain bullet in any caliber. They are cursed
    NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.

    Right...I love unsupported arguments.

    KG

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    Quote Originally Posted by kg333 View Post
    Right...I love unsupported arguments.

    KG
    From anonymous posters on the interwebs!

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    Hey guys I just posted something I read that may have been an interest to some.

    I looked for the authors name, but it was never given. I don't really like stuff that comes from "a somebody told me" source. But reading it, it does appear the writer knew what he/she was talking about. Yes I noticed the dated prices, but ammo is ammo. I doubt ammo makers have made many modifications.

    And thanks for all your input, may change my mind about my 147 & 165 gr stuff. Sorry Beefy!

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by plentyofpaws View Post
    And thanks for all your input, may change my mind about my 147 & 165 gr stuff. Sorry Beefy!


    You read the article, that stuff is no good! I'll dispose of it properly for you.

    -Jeff-

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    If you decide you want to get rid of it, add me to the list of willing recepients.

    Karma giveaway??

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    No insult to you at all. I think most people were going after the writer of the article and you may have been caught in the crossfire of sorts. Just that some take measured amounts of credibility away from anything authored by "Anonymous" sources. The author names specific (high profile in the firearms community) names in his writing and yet doesn't have the nads to identify himself in any way. Red flags went up for me from the onset as it's right below the title. Yes the article is dated. However, his claims are vailed and skewed and even moreso with current and recent ballistic, metalurgical and production/testing methods used withing the firearms and ammunition manufacturing industries.

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    No offense meant to you, paws, I was going after the author. Anybody who makes blanket statements like "This is a stupid fad", "I don't care what you've heard", "[this ammo] sucks", sounds like they have an agenda and no decent arguments.

    KG

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    Yeah, no offense meant towards you, Paws.

    In my former life as a police officer and law enforcement firearms instructor I was involved a really cool duty ammo demo, and later was the researcher on a duty ammo selection committee (well,, it ended up being a one man committee). At the time we ended up with a 124 grain load but the 147 grain load was the second choice and I later carried it in a different department. I used it twice on the street and it worked great. That specific load was Speer Gold Dot.

  24. #23
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    I read in an article once that if you wear pyramid shaped hats, you can communicate with aliens... and the author spoke from experience...

    Kidding...

    147s are fine, and +P just makes shot placement harder...

    JeffWard

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWard View Post
    I read in an article once that if you wear pyramid shaped hats, you can communicate with aliens... and the author spoke from experience...
    no no jeff. its place your money in a pyramid and have it quadrupled. (which now a days is a safer bet then wall street)

    but remember the line..." and the myan panaroma's on my pyramid pajamas haven't helped my little problem....."

    Sorry back on topic. Never used it. i think it would kick like hell in the P-11. But would have no problem using it otherwise.

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    Heys guys, honestly no offense was taken and I didn't take anythng personal. I do know for fact that the 147 &165 provide a helluva kick. However, if you looked at my range card for my new Sig, you'll see that it hit the target. Thats what I desire from ammo. You squeeze, it goes bang and hole ends up in the desired proximity.

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