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  1. #21
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    you are right. i really like stoeger cougar but it has one set back, the bore axis is very high (makes gun lesser accurate). anyone out there please help me identify the gun according to my requirements. can i any one know how can i contact any gun manufacturer, who will look into my gun design and requirements and make a custom handgun for me.

  2. #22
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    i am still awaiting some serious input to my thread

  3. #23
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeeshan View Post
    i am still awaiting some serious input to my thread
    You have, as quoted below. People have suggested the Glocks and the HK's. They have also suggested that it may be a user issue, in which some responders to your thread have even asked you for more details regrading your stance and technique, to which you have not replied.


    Quote Originally Posted by unpecador View Post
    Well there's your solution, if Glocks and HK are not working out for you then stick with the Stoeger.
    Quote Originally Posted by GlockamaniaŽ View Post
    Improper handgun grip and/or broken extractor.
    Quote Originally Posted by unpecador View Post
    If you have fired all Glocks and HK's (that's a lot of guns) and getting the same results, there must be something that you are doing to allow it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    The older Glock 19s were sort of famous/infamous for pinging cases off the heads of short-armed shooters. Since then, I've not heard of it as a widespread problem with Glocks or HKs.

    What shooting stance do you use, and how far is the pistol from your face when you shoot?
    Quote Originally Posted by IntegraGSR View Post
    My 17 has often bounced cases off the divider between lanes and hit me, but they don't hit me directly. Are they coming directly back at you?
    You are getting serious input. IMO, you're discounting it because you're not getting the answers that you want to hear, especially the fact that it may be something that you're doing and not the gun.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    Hmmm... Short arms... Big head.... a picture is developing:


    +1 LOL!

  5. #25
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    A high bore axis doesn't make the gun less accurate from a mechanical standpoint. It just makes it harder to shoot fast and well from human hands. But unless you're a pretty good and experienced shooter, you probably won't even be able to tell the difference. I don't get from your posts that you're very experienced.

    Anyway, all guns are compromises. Just choose where you're willing to compromise. I wish Glocks had smaller grip circumferences, but they don't. I overlook that because I like the gun otherwise.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  6. #26
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    I'd say it has something to do with how you are gripping the gun. As far as I've noticed in my years of shooting Glocks and HK's The Glock requires a bit stiffer grip and more square stance whereas the HK needs a bit lighter touch when it comes to gripping the pistol and a slightly more forward/open stance. I'm not talking a complete change in stance, but for Glock, feet almost parallel and HK's, for right handed shooters left foot slightly forward of right.

    Often times people forget to manipulate their legs as well as their grip when it comes to proper grip and stance. The recoil from a pistol doesn't just affect your hands and arms. That energy is transferred throughout your body to the ground. Changing how you stand is very important and I've been able to determine for my own uses how I need to stand with every different pistol that I use. Some overlap, some are the same, but different pistols require slight modifications to how you shoot them.

    I'm not saying that the traditional stances taught by countless people some famous, some not are in need of change, just that every shooters body is different than the next so there needs to be some slight modifications to the stance based on the shooter to best utilize what they've got.

    As to the problem of the brass hitting you in the face, I'd say that the energy required to "fling" it out over your head or to the side is being dampened by a weak grip on the pistol Now, that being said, I am not there to see it or analyse it, or shoot the pistol myself so I could be flat out wrong. Please don't take that as a personal attack, but I've shot with/analysed problems for/taught many people the small little differences that I've noticed after watching them shoot and putting it on film for them so they can see what is happening during recoil. I haven't seen alot of video posted on this forum and that may just be by chance, but I film alot of my shooting so that I can watch myself and see what I'm doing wrong. It helps alot. I have a little camera that'll run 60 frames/second and that is worth a million bucks to me, because I can slow it down a bit and watch what is happening. I'd like to get a camera capable of 200+fps but those are more spendy than a fine firearm. If you have the ability to film it, I'd say it would be invaluable to helping solve the problem. As always be very careful, use a tripod so as to not put someone in the path of hot brass. (Wives don't like being camera people, just for the record hehe)

    Zhur

  7. #27
    sniper350 is offline Junior Member
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    Anyway, all guns are compromises.
    +1 ........ very true ! Also Mike has pointed out that you have a few "misconceptions" about how the semi-auto works ..........and you might want do some more learning before buying.

    A few examples:

    The ejection port size or placement has little to do with where a shell will be thrown from the pistol - the idea being you want the port placement & size to be such that the ejected casing "misses the port" on the way out.
    The EJECTOR & EXTRACTOR control the direction of the empty casing as it leaves the pistol, in the best case scenario. Your problems with empty shells hitting you in the face has more to do with the "Ejector" needing tuning ........ more so than adjusting the port's opening.

    Next, Trigger pull -directly- has no bearing on accuracy. It is true that accuracy is sometimes easier to obtain [ by a novice shooter ] with a lighter trigger pull. "Consistent" Lock-up of your pistol [ barrel to Slide ] is where you build the pistol's accuracy. It has even been postulated that the Slide's fit to the frame of the pistol has minor control over accuracy.
    This being true with a pistol where the Sights, Slide and barrel are all one unit. So 1911's with a slightly loose Slide Fitment to the frame can still be quite accuracte!

    Finally........you might be able to get a company like "Nighthawk" to build you a custom T-3 [1911] to your specs. but be prepared to lay out about 3 thousand dollars to start. Wait times on the build [ depending on what you want done ] could be as long as 6 months or longer.

    Good luck with your quest ..........

    JF.

  8. #28
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniper350 View Post
    +1 ........ very true ! Also Mike has pointed out that you have a few "misconceptions" about how the semi-auto works ..........and you might want do some more learning before buying.

    A few examples:

    The ejection port size or placement has little to do with where a shell will be thrown from the pistol - the idea being you want the port placement & size to be such that the ejected casing "misses the port" on the way out.
    The EJECTOR & EXTRACTOR control the direction of the empty casing as it leaves the pistol, in the best case scenario. Your problems with empty shells hitting you in the face has more to do with the "Ejector" needing tuning ........ more so than adjusting the port's opening.

    Next, Trigger pull -directly- has no bearing on accuracy. It is true that accuracy is sometimes easier to obtain [ by a novice shooter ] with a lighter trigger pull. "Consistent" Lock-up of your pistol [ barrel to Slide ] is where you build the pistol's accuracy. It has even been postulated that the Slide's fit to the frame of the pistol has minor control over accuracy.
    This being true with a pistol where the Sights, Slide and barrel are all one unit. So 1911's with a slightly loose Slide Fitment to the frame can still be quite accuracte!

    Finally........you might be able to get a company like "Nighthawk" to build you a custom T-3 [1911] to your specs. but be prepared to lay out about 3 thousand dollars to start. Wait times on the build [ depending on what you want done ] could be as long as 6 months or longer.

    Good luck with your quest ..........

    JF.
    you seem to be an expert and its nice to read your views. sir, as you have read my requirements now, can you please do me a favor and name a few guns?

    secondly, i bought two glock17 and returned both of them one after another as out of 50 ejected rounds atleast five hit my face or torso.

    then i bought cz 9mm . 1000 rounds and no problems.

    then bought taurus 609ti (9mm). taurus was most accurte, smoothest trigger but had one problem. after firing the rail did not settle back full causing missfire. so i returned it. but i had best groups of my life with that 609 taurus.

    then, i bought HK usp compact in 9mm. threw almost 5 out of 100 ejected carteridges at my face.

    so, i noticed the ejection ports of bot HK and Glock and thaout prt placement might be reason.

    anyways, i am still a novice. so, please comment and answer my former question
    thanks.

  9. #29
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    You have, as quoted below. People have suggested the Glocks and the HK's. They have also suggested that it may be a user issue, in which some responders to your thread have even asked you for more details regrading your stance and technique, to which you have not replied.












    You are getting serious input. IMO, you're discounting it because you're not getting the answers that you want to hear, especially the fact that it may be something that you're doing and not the gun.
    you seem to be an expert and its nice to read your views. sir, as you have read my requirements now, can you please do me a favor and name a few guns?

    secondly, i bought two glock17 and returned both of them one after another as out of 50 ejected rounds atleast five hit my face or torso.

    then i bought cz 9mm . 1000 rounds and no problems.

    then bought taurus 609ti (9mm). taurus was most accurte, smoothest trigger but had one problem. after firing the rail did not settle back full causing missfire. so i returned it. but i had best groups of my life with that 609 taurus.

    then, i bought HK usp compact in 9mm. threw almost 5 out of 100 ejected carteridges at my face.

    so, i noticed the ejection ports of bot HK and Glock and thaout prt placement might be reason.

    anyways, i am still a novice. so, please comment and answer my former question
    thanks.

  10. #30
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    I'd say it has something to do with how you are gripping the gun. As far as I've noticed in my years of shooting Glocks and HK's The Glock requires a bit stiffer grip and more square stance whereas the HK needs a bit lighter touch when it comes to gripping the pistol and a slightly more forward/open stance. I'm not talking a complete change in stance, but for Glock, feet almost parallel and HK's, for right handed shooters left foot slightly forward of right.

    Often times people forget to manipulate their legs as well as their grip when it comes to proper grip and stance. The recoil from a pistol doesn't just affect your hands and arms. That energy is transferred throughout your body to the ground. Changing how you stand is very important and I've been able to determine for my own uses how I need to stand with every different pistol that I use. Some overlap, some are the same, but different pistols require slight modifications to how you shoot them.

    I'm not saying that the traditional stances taught by countless people some famous, some not are in need of change, just that every shooters body is different than the next so there needs to be some slight modifications to the stance based on the shooter to best utilize what they've got.

    As to the problem of the brass hitting you in the face, I'd say that the energy required to "fling" it out over your head or to the side is being dampened by a weak grip on the pistol Now, that being said, I am not there to see it or analyse it, or shoot the pistol myself so I could be flat out wrong. Please don't take that as a personal attack, but I've shot with/analysed problems for/taught many people the small little differences that I've noticed after watching them shoot and putting it on film for them so they can see what is happening during recoil. I haven't seen alot of video posted on this forum and that may just be by chance, but I film alot of my shooting so that I can watch myself and see what I'm doing wrong. It helps alot. I have a little camera that'll run 60 frames/second and that is worth a million bucks to me, because I can slow it down a bit and watch what is happening. I'd like to get a camera capable of 200+fps but those are more spendy than a fine firearm. If you have the ability to film it, I'd say it would be invaluable to helping solve the problem. As always be very careful, use a tripod so as to not put someone in the path of hot brass. (Wives don't like being camera people, just for the record hehe)

    Zhur
    sir, thanks for you comments . as i have already mentioned, i have fired hundreds of rounds through cz(original) stoger cougar , taurus 609 but i had this problem with glock and hk only

  11. #31
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeeshan View Post
    please comment and answer my former question
    Since I believe that this is a user issue and not a gun issue, my advice on this topic is follow the advice that has already been given by the others here.

    The other piece of advice I will give, off topic, is to stop telling people to address the question until you get an answer that you want to hear and do not PM people with the same question either. Numerous people have answered your question. Take some of the suggestions and move on. Don't like the answers? Post it on another forum, not in every sub-forum on this forum. I'm not sure how familiar you are with internet forums, but there are times that you will not hear what you want and there will even be times that you get no responses. And, IMO, if you keep hounding the other members to re-address your post and also keep positing your question in every post you respond to, I can pretty much guarantee that people will just stop responding to your posts altogether.

    This thread is starting to have the appearance of going 'round and 'round in circles. Unless someone comes in with something different soon, I'm going to end its misery.

  12. #32
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    I've been pinged by countless cases over the years. It's not really a big deal. I don't even notice it anymore. My Glocks very well might ping me once in a while and I don't even know it.

    I don't think 5 pings "in the head and torso" in 100 rounds is a big deal. If it really makes you wet your pants, you already listed three guns that don't ping you with brass, so just select one of them and move on.

    Wear a ball cap, eye protection, and a shirt with a snug collar when you shoot.
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  13. #33
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    Zeeshan,
    As I mentioned, all guns are different and require different quirks. The only pistol I've ever owned that consistently bonged me on the head with brass was a Beretta 92FS. The gun was great, but it was before I really started paying attention to grip/stance and before I video'd myself to learn. Consequently, I sold the gun because I couldn't stand the "boing" off my head every 3rd shot or so. I bet I coulda figured it out.

    I think people would be surprised at just how much yaw there is in their pistol during recoil. Getting your grip to the point where there is little to no yaw is what gets you back on target faster and it also results in more a more consistent location of your fired brass. When firing your pistol at around 1 round every second and a half, your brass really should be in a neat little pile if you are hitting the target with any consistancy, or at least I've found that to be the case, with the exception of my FN 5.7 because that thing just throws them like a sprinkler about 25 feet away!

    The yaw in the pistol is probably what is causing the brass to come back at your head. As an example, if your pistol was put in a ransom rest, I'd put big money on it that it would not throw the brass straight back where your head would be. The pistol just isn't designed to do that, so that means that it is another variable, and the biggest variable involved in any pistol is the person pulling the trigger. Fire slowly, focus on recoil management, and controlling the 'yaw' of the pistol, I bet it'll fix the problem.

    Zhur

  14. #34
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    By the way,


    I'm guessing that English is his second language.

    I don't say that to be mean Zeeshan, but your sentence structure looks as though English is your second language.

    That may be why his request come off a little pushy Todd.

    Zhur

    **second language confirmed in a different thread**
    Last edited by zhurdan; 07-17-2008 at 04:37 PM. Reason: found answer in another thread.

  15. #35
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    i agree

  16. #36
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Since I believe that this is a user issue and not a gun issue, my advice on this topic is follow the advice that has already been given by the others here.

    The other piece of advice I will give, off topic, is to stop telling people to address the question until you get an answer that you want to hear and do not PM people with the same question either. Numerous people have answered your question. Take some of the suggestions and move on. Don't like the answers? Post it on another forum, not in every sub-forum on this forum. I'm not sure how familiar you are with internet forums, but there are times that you will not hear what you want and there will even be times that you get no responses. And, IMO, if you keep hounding the other members to re-address your post and also keep positing your question in every post you respond to, I can pretty much guarantee that people will just stop responding to your posts altogether.

    This thread is starting to have the appearance of going 'round and 'round in circles. Unless someone comes in with something different soon, I'm going to end its misery.
    sorry

  17. #37
    submoa is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    This thread is starting to have the appearance of going 'round and 'round in circles. Unless someone comes in with something different soon, I'm going to end its misery.
    This guy has posted the same questions over and over in different subforums and has sent me 2 PMs with the same set of questions. Closing and locking the thread will only have him post again and continue to pester members.

    Basically all the heavy hitters have already posted responses.

    Bottom line Zeeshan if you are not getting answers you are happy with here, unless the membership of the forum changes, you might want to try your questions elsewhere. This is a forum, not a service.

  18. #38
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    This guy has posted the same questions over and over in different subforums and has sent me 2 PMs with the same set of questions. Closing and locking the thread will only have him post again and continue to pester members.

    Basically all the heavy hitters have already posted responses.

    Bottom line Zeeshan if you are not getting answers you are happy with here, unless the membership of the forum changes, you might want to try your questions elsewhere. This is a forum, not a service.
    ok sir, i will not post any more questions on this thread. goodbye

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