just use one of you back ups!
I saw a TV show and the guy got knocked over the head and his gun was taken from him and he was ordered to walk toward the door and open it. Other people were around to take out the other person the guy said no. talked to the other person they got jumpy and pulled the trigger. No shot, the guy said “rule #1 never keep a round in the chamber in case someone takes it from you” Now I know that THIS IS HOLLYWOOD but how much of this is true. Please don’t think I’m a nut just asking
just use one of you back ups!
Frist of all never beleive anything you hear and only about half of what you see. Always keep a round in the chamber and if they get to you your gun it should be empty.
Last edited by Baldy; 06-12-2008 at 09:40 AM.
If you are going to have your gun drawn in an emergency situation then there should be a round in the chamber.
Round in the chamber at all times. Otherwise you're just carrying a brick.
Anyone seen the previews for that new movie, "Wanted" with Anaglena Jolie and Morgan Freeman? There is a part where Morgan Freeman tells this kid to curve the bullet. Yes, you read right. So Jolie goes and stands a given distance away and the kid does some wierd rotating motion with his arm and shoots at her face. The bullet does a barrel roll type of thing missing her by an inch, then curving in back into a bullseye that was behind her.
I mean, really...
I hope they have a kids don't try this at home warning. Otherwise someone
who can't tell you where Japan or the Pacific Ocean is will try it.
Oh yea man, it's totally possible. I've only managed to do it twice out of about a hundred tries but it's defiently possible............
I am going to try the curving bullet thing. So, who wants to stand in front of my target and sign my little 'waiver?'
Oh, and hitting incoming bullets in mid-air with your bullets is easy too.
Sad part is, I will probably go see it.
I don't know if I'd go pay $10 to see that movie but I might rent it.
Looking for "realistic" gun play in any movie/TV show is pretty much a fool's errand. I think this particular movie is supposed to have some kind of supernatural edge to it. Thus the curving bullets and the crack Jedi timing. Of course it's not realistic, but it sure looks cool, which is what action movies are all about.
I'll probably rent it.
I hope that a whole lot of gang-bangers try to learn that shoot-a-curve technique...by practicing on each other.
Single shot: There's one in the chamber at all times (action may or may not be closed depending on circumstances)
Revolver: The hammer is always on an empty (even ones with a transfer bar -- except the Vaquero where the cylinder will rotate w/the hammer down)
Lever Action/Bolt Action/Pump Action long guns: Magazine is full; chamber is empty (when stored)
Round in the chamber when carried "with purpose")
Semi Auto: Those that will do so have a full magazine w/slide locked back -- touch safety & round is loaded; regardless, full magazine/empty chamber (when stored)
Round in the chamber (when carried -- which, for me, is not often)
Since single shots are only useful as range or hunting guns, this makes obvious sense.Single shot: There's one in the chamber at all times (action may or may not be closed depending on circumstances)
Single actions of modern design (read: Ruger) are safe to carry with all chambers loaded. Ditto DA revolvers.Revolver: The hammer is always on an empty (even ones with a transfer bar -- except the Vaquero where the cylinder will rotate w/the hammer down)
It's situational, as you point out. A defensive shotgun might be kept in "cruiser ready" with empty chamber. A bolt gun should have a round chambered when stalking game. Lever guns can go either way. In The Art of the Rifle, Jeff Cooper advocates empty-chamber carryywith lever guns, and cycling as the rifle is shouldered for a shot at game. On the other hand, most woods hunters in my native New England carried their '94s and 336s with loaded chambers but hammer down.Lever Action/Bolt Action/Pump Action long guns: Magazine is full; chamber is empty (when stored) Round in the chamber when carried "with purpose"
Presumably you mean the "touch slide release"...? Odd way to store a pistol, though. Why not just leave the chamber empty if you don't want to store a fully loaded pistol? If you're not wearing the gun and have to go fetch it anyway, cycling the slide is a simple matter.Semi Auto: Those that will do so have a full magazine w/slide locked back -- touch safety & round is loaded;
Anyway, all my defense guns are always loaded, including the chamber. Doesn't matter if they are on my hip or in the night table.
I did not pay attention to the Discussion Area, which IS "General Semi-Auto"; so, I probably should have restricted my comments to semi-auto firearms... I apologize!
As for the "carrying in police service or defense" I apparently misinterpreted the question. I thought frbjr was asking about the "Hollywood Contention" that you should leave the chamber unloaded because an enemy who gets hold of an unfamiliar gun will be too stupid to take steps (rack the slide, work the lever, et cetera) to ensure it will go bang on the first pull of the trigger. I figured that question was valid for whatever type of firearm (pistol, rifle, shotgun) and action (slide, bolt, lever, revolving, falling block, rolling block, trap-door, or semi-auto) the BG might acquire from you under whatever circumstances ("knocking you over the head," rifling (pardon the pun) your gun storage on the way to your bedroom during a burglary, et cetera) might occur…
Again, my apologies if this construction of the question was too broad.
On the other hand, you did a very nice, very thorough job of analyzing and critiquing my comments.
Please allow me to respond in kind…
What is not always so obvious, particularly to those of us (which, sadly, now includes me) who make our living in urban or suburban areas, is that people who "earn their livelihood on the land" (as I did in my youth) face exigencies that some times differ from the rest of us. Not everything from which one might care to defend oneself walks on two legs and wears a mask…
As a young buck back on the ranch, I started regularly carrying a single-shot .410, while "doing chores" and feeding cattle, the year we had major problems with "dog packs." They destroyed a lot of livestock, mauled a couple of people, and killed a migrant worker's kid. We found enough of her scattered along the river bank to ID, but there were still "pieces missing" when she was buried. Between December and end of calving season that year, the farmers and ranchers between the Canadian border and Tonasket killed at least 135 dogs that were running in packs…
I accounted for two of them with my little "only useful as a range gun" single-shot; the big one as they were charging me; the medium-sized German Shepherd as it turned tail and ran… I was nine…
I probably should have said My revolvers are carried "on an empty." Except for the Vaquero (which now "belongs" to middle son) and an H&R double action I acquired some years ago, all of my revolvers are older firearms. (No doubt, I "shoot away" collector value on a regular basis.) None except the two just mentioned have transfer bars. Even if they did, the holsters in which I carry them use a strap arrangement designed to hold the revolver in place until the hammer is moved.
"Hokey" as this may sound to someone in the modern holster industry; I can assure you it works quite well. It will keep the firearm firmly seated even on a horse bucking and sun-fishing hard enough to make a fellow's hat, boots, vest, pants, and shirt go flying off and hit the ground. (I know this because I was still inside most of the aforementioned clothing when it landed.)
While I like the system because it releases instantly when you lift the hammer on a draw, it leaves a piece of leather between the hammer and the firing pin -- hence the chamber under the hammer on my revolver is empty. The only exception to this is the Vaquero; its cylinder will rotate if you open the loading gate -- potentially moving a live round under the hammer -- it gets a "conventional" strap.
That said, everybody in the house knows that when you pick up a firearm, you check to see it is loaded. In a "hurry up" situation (the coyotes are after the chickens again), you do this by working the action -- there goes that round we left in the chamber skittering across the floor…
I don't like leaving a firing pin, under spring tension, pointed at a primer; I do not trust safeties (Hunter's Ed Rule of Safeties: "A safety is a mechanical device and mechanical devices are subject to failure") to keep that tension from turning into an accidental discharge if sufficient impact should occur.
In my view, these reasons are over-ridden when the gun is being carried for a purpose. For one thing, the firearm is under a single person's control/responsibility… including the responsibility to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction -- round in the chamber or not…
(Part of the reason I personally like the '94 -- even though its action is weaker than the others you mention -- is the disconnect rod that allows you to lower the hammer to half-cock w/no danger of an accidental discharge should your thumb slip.)
Personally, I was thinking of the Ruger Mark II that I sometimes carry on trips where I anticipate having to transfer it from carry to vehicle storage & back (such as McClure-Volkmer type transportation while passing through states my CCW does not cover). With this particular firearm, you can pull the slide back then lock the safety and the slide will stay back until the safety is released.
To my personal knowledge, which is extremely limited in the semi-auto area, this "feature" is rare in semi-autos (as opposed to the slide locking back on the last round and being actuated by the "touch slide release" after a fresh magazine is inserted); but, I take advantage of it…
Twenty-some years ago, while we still lived in Spokane, there was an incident "up in Stevens County" where an attempted traffic-stop went bad. The driver of the car pulled out a gun instead of his license and shot the deputy. The deputy's vest saved him, but by the time he was back in his cruiser and giving pursuit, the car had a big lead. They drove into a housing development and ran out of ground at a cul-de-sac, left their vehicle, and busted down the door of the nearest house. The husband inside immediately went running for his gun -- while being chased by the only BG who was armed. He got to his bedroom, retrieved his semi-automatic firearm… and was still fumbling with the clip when the BG shot him in the head.
I happened to be familiar with the layout inside of that particular house; I was a guest there many times until my boss (fortunately) sold it a few months before this incident. A loaded firearm would have given the homeowner good position -- the BG had to come down a long, straight hallway, with backlighting, to get to him -- everything was in the resident's favor except the unloaded firearm…
The BGs stole the family vehicle & drove to Spokane -- picking up a "tail" of several Cops then, eventually, what seemed like half the SPD along the way. After about 45 minutes of "hot pursuit" and hundreds of rounds expended (from the then new semi-autos carried by the police) there were a couple more dead. The casualties included one of the BGs (fine by me) and an elderly lady killed by the SPD. All this would have stopped back at the home invasion IF the homeowner had kept a loaded firearm.
So, even though I don't live in your part of the country, I still very much appreciate the fact that you stay ready. The lives you someday save may include more people than you know; they might even include me.
Thank you for faithfully shouldering that responsibility.