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  1. #1
    rperez07 is offline Banned
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    Talking Semi Autos without Hammer

    You'll be able to tell I'm new at this just by the question I'm about to ask ... but hey, we all start somewhere

    What are the advantages/disadvantages of semi autos without a hammer in the back? I particular like the looks of these (especially the Kimber KPD, this gun looks awesome!!!) I just wished they would make a .22LR which is what I'm on the market for.

    I like the Walther P22 but when I held it, felt a little small for my large hands, specially the magazine as it kept running into my palm when I was trying to eject it. So I was hoping someone out there had any other options for a starter 22LR (semi auto) and while you're at it, explain why some guns have hammers while others do not.

    I'm looking to get my gun just for target/plinking purposes but trying to avoid getting a longer barrel gun while I'm at it if possible.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    It's just preference. Whether a gun is DA/SA or SAO, the hammer can be decocked to put it in DA or act as a safety, although it's not recommended. Some striker-operated handguns have decocking mechanisms that put them in DA, and some are SAO. It's all preference. I prefer a hammer over a striker.

  3. #3
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Striker fired weapons like the XD and the Glock, won't have a hammer. You'll also see this in DAO (Double Action Only) autos and some revolvers. The reasons being is that on the striker weapons, there is no hammer, but instead a striker, and it's internal. The DAO's and the revolvers will have a hammer, it just won't have the "nub" sticking out so you can't manually cock the gun making it single action. If you could manually cock the gun, then it would defeat the whole DOA thing. Plus, having nothing sticking out can be better if you carry concealed as there is nothing to dig into you or nothing to snag on clothing as you draw.

    Check out the Browning Buckmark and the Ruger MKIII for a .22.
    Last edited by Todd; 05-15-2008 at 07:24 AM.

  4. #4
    JeffWard's Avatar
    JeffWard is offline Senior Member
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    What Todd said...

    Welcome to the forum!

    JeffWard

  5. #5
    kenn's Avatar
    kenn is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rperez07 View Post
    What are the advantages/disadvantages of semi autos without a hammer in the back? I particular like the looks of these (especially the Kimber KPD, this gun looks awesome!!!) I just wished they would make a .22LR which is what I'm on the market for.
    Welcome to the forum from DFW Texas,

    It is not a PD, but.....
    http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/rimfire/

    or you can get a PD and...
    http://www.kimberamerica.com/shop/pr...159e6f08fd292a

    If you get the Kimber rimfire post pics and throw up a range report
    (accuracy/jams/distance/ammo used/lighting conditions) I don't know anyone with one and think that they are neat.

    Or, you can buy bigger backstraps for a Walther (don't know if they make an extended mag for the p22 yet )

  6. #6
    submoa is offline Member
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    A traditional, arcing hammer will predictably deliver a heaver blow to the chambered cartridge's primer than will a "striker", which is little more than a spring-loaded firing pin. Many design engineers thus insist that hammer-fired pistols provide inherently more reliable ignition than do striker-fired ones. However, many trainers insist that a pistol with a hammer that visibly moves as the trigger is pressed is distracting to beginning students who should be learning to watch the front sight. No striker-fired pistol features double-drop.

    Striker designs are increasingly popular on polymer pistols with adjustable grip sizing as there is no mainspring in the backstrap.

    Some owners prefer striker fired pistols as having a better melt without the spur found on most hammers. A number of DAO hammer fired pistols are spurless as thumb cocking is not required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Striker fired weapons like the XD and the Glock, won't have a hammer. You'll also see this in DAO (Double Action Only) autos and some revolvers.
    I am not aware of a striker fired revolver. All revolvers have a hammer of some sort, some hammers are covered by a shroud.

  7. #7
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Striker-fired pistols allow less dust and debris to enter the weapon, though this may only be a theoretical advantage, since my unit's conventional-hammer Beretta 92s worked fine in Afghanistan.

    Striker-fired pistols also tend to have lower bore axes than hammer guns, though the older Browning designs (1911, P35 and the derivative CZ75) are exceptions to this general rule.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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    All opinions, particularly those involving politics and Glocks, are mine and not Galco's.

  8. #8
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    I am not aware of a striker fired revolver. All revolvers have a hammer of some sort, some hammers are covered by a shroud.
    I was not saying there was a striker fired revolver. I was trying to say there were striker fired pistols AND DAO pistols and revolvers. Sorry for any confusion to the OP.

  9. #9
    Joeywhat's Avatar
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    I love my Walther P22. Yes, it is small, but I prefer small guns. I have medium large hands. Using the pinky rest mag helps somewhat. I think it's a great gun for playing around with, and "short" range practice. I think it'd be pretty useless over 25 yards, without optics of some sort. and I think those look dumb on the P22.

    If you want a longer range .22 handgun, the Ruger Mk II/III are great choices. I've shot the II many times. Very reliable gun. For just going to the range, however, I prefer my P22 as feels more natural to me.

  10. #10
    Liko81 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivehourfrenzy View Post
    It's just preference. Whether a gun is DA/SA or SAO, the hammer can be decocked to put it in DA or act as a safety, although it's not recommended.
    Wait a sec. Most people would tell you not to carry an SAO (like a 1911) Condition 2, but a DA/SA is considered safe when decocked and it's a totally valid way to carry a DA/SA. In fact, many TDAs have a two-position decocking safety, meaning Condition 1 is impossible. Examples include Ruger P-series pistols and the Beretta PX4 line. The USP does have a safety that allows C&L carry, and some Sigs have a safety and seperate decocker, but AFAIK they're the minority among hammer-fired TDAs.

  11. #11
    PhilR. is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rperez07 View Post
    1. What are the advantages/disadvantages of semi autos without a hammer in the back?

    2. I just wished they would make a .22LR which is what I'm on the market for.

    3. explain why some guns have hammers while others do not.

    4. I'm looking to get my gun just for target/plinking purposes but trying to avoid getting a longer barrel gun while I'm at it if possible.

    Thanks!
    1. The only disadvantage of a hammered auto (to me) is that the hammer can dig into your side, depending on how you carry and what you carry it in. Other than that, the presence of a hammer does not bother me a bit.

    2. There are several .22 auto's that don't have hammers. The Ruger MKIII, Browning Buckmark, Beretta Neos, and S&W 22A all don't have hammers. Well, they do have hammers, but they are enclosed by the slide, and you can't see them until you take them apart.

    3. Some guns have hammers because they need something to transmit stored energy to the firing pin, and thus to the primer. Some don't have hammers because they have something else to transmit stored energy to the firing pin.

    4. You can get the Ruger in a fairly short barrel. The S&W and Beretta mentioned above can also be found in approx. 4" versions as well. The Firestorm .22 has a short barrel, and the Beretta Bobcat has a barrel shorter still.

    PhilR.

  12. #12
    Spartan's Avatar
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    That Kimber looks exactly like the Steyr M-A1.

  13. #13
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liko81 View Post
    Wait a sec. Most people would tell you not to carry an SAO (like a 1911) Condition 2, but a DA/SA is considered safe when decocked and it's a totally valid way to carry a DA/SA. In fact, many TDAs have a two-position decocking safety, meaning Condition 1 is impossible. Examples include Ruger P-series pistols and the Beretta PX4 line. The USP does have a safety that allows C&L carry, and some Sigs have a safety and seperate decocker, but AFAIK they're the minority among hammer-fired TDAs.
    The HK USP series as well as the P2000 have options for no safety and just a decocker. The P30 has a decocker but no manual safety as well. I believe the HK45 and HK45c have options for this as well, but I'm not 100% sure. All of these weapons use a hammer as you mentioned.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liko81 View Post
    Wait a sec. Most people would tell you not to carry an SAO (like a 1911) Condition 2, but a DA/SA is considered safe when decocked and it's a totally valid way to carry a DA/SA. In fact, many TDAs have a two-position decocking safety, meaning Condition 1 is impossible. Examples include Ruger P-series pistols and the Beretta PX4 line. The USP does have a safety that allows C&L carry, and some Sigs have a safety and seperate decocker, but AFAIK they're the minority among hammer-fired TDAs.
    I meant it's not recommended to carry a hammer-operated SAO decocked. Carrying a traditional DA/SA in DA is fine.

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