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  1. #21
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    It's a critique of availability more than anything. Glock stuff is everywhere. You really have to dig to find Steyr stuff. The Steyr just isn't popular. Walk into any gun shop and try to find a holster or a magazine for the Steyr. The guy behind the counter will just give you a blank look unless he's a Steyr enthusiast himself.

    I agree that it has a nice low bore axis, but one of the advantages of the Glock is that accessories and parts are so easy to find, as are Glock-trained armorers. I like that kind of convenience, but I am basically a lazy guy and uninterested in searching the internet for three hours to find a holster for an obscure pistol, or a guy who can fix my gun.

    I agree that one should generally choose the gun he shoots the best. But sometimes other factors come into play. For example, I shoot the 1911 better than the Glock, but the Glock is more reliable, so I carry it in preference to the 1911.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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    All opinions, particularly those involving politics and Glocks, are mine and not Galco's.

  2. #22
    submoa is offline Member
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    Low bore axis is not a worry for me.

    All handgun designs are tradeoffs.

    Cesare Moroni's anatomic grip design results in superb pointability for my hands. So I carry a P99. QA trigger since consistency contributes to muscle memory. On the other hand the S&W (G2) rail is hard to fit accessories I have no use for on a carry gun. And its trigger has taken a long time to break in for smoothness. But I shoot it well at SD distances.

    I shoot an MG16 equipped L9A1 better and enjoy a well tuned 6" 1911 more, but they are not as comfortable for me to carry as a striker fired poly 9.

    None of this could be relevant for a different shooter. Ultimately they have to make the choice from their own set of criteria.

    To blindly ask for handgun recommendations without identifying features that count for you will result in equally worthless feedback (ie. "look no further claims"). Similarly, an honest recommendation will include the pimples you have to live with. In the end, the only way to confirm these claims is to shoot the gun.

  3. #23
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by brisk21 View Post
    well, since you clearly have such distain for glocks, if you have any more let me know if you want to sell them, because I imagine you'll likely sell them for next to nothing. glocks are probably the best self defense handguns in the world. nothing has been tested so extensively and always passed. there is a reason they're soooo popular, they work every time!
    Your skewed view of the world is very annoying BTW.

    So what I sold my Glock because I found something I like better. I enjoy shooting something Non-Glock more than I did my Glock. It's called preference, and something we here in the USA are allowed to have no?

  4. #24
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by brisk21 View Post
    I agree, with you mike, but, the simplicity of the glock is one of the reasons I think it is the best self defense handgun. there is clearly no such thing as perfection in a weapon of any kind. Maybe glocks new slogan should be-- "everything you need and nothing you dont"
    Simplicity? Do you know how many parts are actually inside a Glock? And no it's not what it says in the manual or on Glock's site. It's probably no less than the amount of parts inside a S&W M&P, or a Springfield XD.

  5. #25
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    Simplicity? Do you know how many parts are actually inside a Glock? And no it's not what it says in the manual or on Glock's site. It's probably no less than the amount of parts inside a S&W M&P, or a Springfield XD.
    I think he was referring to simplicity of operation, but of course the M&P, XD, and others are just as simple to operate as the Glock. Even if some of them have useless extra parts like grip safeties.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  6. #26
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    I think he was referring to simplicity of operation, but of course the M&P, XD, and others are just as simple to operate as the Glock. Even if some of them have useless extra parts like grip safeties.
    Every gun is the same in my view, pull the trigger and something gets a hole in it.

  7. #27
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    rj adams:
    I have said before that I would like to own a 45GAP from glock
    i read the latest glock annual magazine and yes 4 state police dept now use the GAP
    some of them switched from the .40 and found less recoil and that raised their scores
    I would search for a good supplier of 45gap ammo and stock up then get the GAP. after all if 4 state police depts are using the GAP then they have to be receiving ammo from somewhere... maybe MDWAY USA

  8. #28
    R.J.Adams is offline Junior Member
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    Well, I just got home from a combat shoot. After the smoke cleared, I shot a couple Glocks and an XD to wring them out a bit. Mostly double taps and one to the head. Flat footed and un aided by a wall or other device. Real world stuff. The XD40 surprised the heck out of me. It by the way is for sale, for now anyway. I may loose some sleep for a day or two sorting it out in my head. I shot a 3" 5 shot group with it at 15yds. Center mass. Couldn't have been anymore centered. It felt like it belonged in my hand. I'm not a grip safty kind of guy,but that thing shot WELL!

    Next up was a Glock 22 I believe in 9mm. Super fast and shot fairly well. I did a "Tripple 6" with it just for fun. Like I said, fast and easy to recover with. This particular Glock had a trigger job, and it was a sweetie.

    Thirdly, was a 34 I think, in 40S&W. This gun felt "Right" too. I had some trouble with double feeds in the 9mm,due to limp wristing I guess. Not so with the 40. It too had a trigger job, and shot quite well. I ran some "Failure to stop drills" with it also. Very nice pistol! It functioned superbly,right or left handed, and is making it hard to make up my mind about the XD. For $450.00 with the XD gear package, I am going to have a hard time sleeping this week. Decisions, decisions. This thing has less than 300 rounds through it. It's going to be a long week at work this week for sure.

  9. #29
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    Every gun is the same in my view, pull the trigger and something gets a hole in it.
    Huh? Are you saying that a gun that requires the release of a manual safety (like a 1911) is as simple to operate as a pistol that only requires pressing the trigger?
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  10. #30
    Tactical Tom's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Glock

    I love my G19, It shoots good enough for me & will eat any brand ammo I load ! I got the 9mm because of the price of ammo ( I'm cheap)
    [IMG][/IMG]
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Try out a few different brands & see what fits you the best

  11. #31
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    Wow, and I thought I was a Glock fanboy!
    Don't sell yourself short, you are THE Glock fanboy!

    I echo what others have said; shoot what you shoot best. I don't find the Glock comfortable, so I don't own one. But it doesn't mean it's not a good gun, it's just not a good gun for me.

  12. #32
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    Huh? Are you saying that a gun that requires the release of a manual safety (like a 1911) is as simple to operate as a pistol that only requires pressing the trigger?
    The actual operation of shooting is the same regardless.

    Safeties and whatnot matter little to me. If my favorte gun has a safety I will have to learn to make wiping off the safety a part of my presentation technique. The actual act of pulling the trigger is the same regardless.

    I mean, my idea is to find a gun I enjoy and can shoot well. Then I learn its features and incorporate those into my practice. If I have to wipe off the safety I practice doing so. It will become just as simple as pointing a Glock or similar and pulling the trigger. It requires no more time, in fact when I shoot a gun without a safety, I instinctively would wipe off the non-existant safety. It becomes second nature.

  13. #33
    brisk21's Avatar
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    glocks have a combined total of 36 parts, one of the fewest in handguns. and yes, I was referring to the operation of the gun. slide lock and mag release. the only buttons you need on a defense gun.

  14. #34
    brisk21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    Every gun is the same in my view, pull the trigger and something gets a hole in it.
    or maybe, deactivate the manual safety, make sure you dont get hung up on the manuel decocker, make sure there is no obstruction between the fireing pin and the external hammer that can get snagged on your shirt on the way out of the holster, then fire.

  15. #35
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Well, okay, but I was a 1911 shooter/carrier for fifteen years before I changed to Glock. While releasing the safety is fast and easy, and takes no extra time, it is an extra step that requires dexterity before the pistol can fire.

    An extra step is an extra step, and it does make the pistol more complex to operate. It's just a fact, regardless of level of training or familiarity with a given pistol.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  16. #36
    R.J.Adams is offline Junior Member
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    There was an instructor shooting with us yesterday,and he made another point to ponder. Acording to him,in times of extreme stress,like a life or death confrontation, you loose some fine motor skills. He promotes not even using the slide release on your pistol to drop the slide on the first round in the mag. He instructs you to stroke the slide to release it and close the action. This being a gross motor skill, and not as likely to go "blank" on you in a chrisis situation. Admittedly, he shoots GLOCK. His point makes some sense to me. My Beretta isn't second nature to me yet. The high mounted de-cock/saftey lever,the loooong DA action of the first shot. Unless you thumb the hammer on the first shot,which is a 2 handed ordeal since I can't reach it safely with my trigger hand only. Simplicity has it's place.

    A feller put a round in the ground next to him and the timer. He was shooting a 1911, and apparently cleared the holster with his finger in the trigger guard while wiping the safety. Scared the he!! out of a couple people. My times weren't the best, I didn't want to ground a round, so I was very careful with my controls on the Beretta.

    I think I could be quite happy with a GLOCK,XD,or M&P. At this point the XD 40 has the edge, for my hand at least. I had to give up trap shooting for physical reasons, and miss the competition. I was AA with a 23 yd handicap when I was sidelined. I want to be as good as I can be in the combat format of shooting. I don't think my beloved Beretta is going to be the weapon though.

  17. #37
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.J.Adams View Post
    There was an instructor shooting with us yesterday,and he made another point to ponder. Acording to him,in times of extreme stress,like a life or death confrontation, you loose some fine motor skills. He promotes not even using the slide release on your pistol to drop the slide on the first round in the mag. He instructs you to stroke the slide to release it and close the action.
    Exactly the reason why many of us here are not in favor of condition 3 carry, as you cannot manipulate the slide fast enough, especially in times of stress, to chamber a round.

  18. #38
    brisk21's Avatar
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    just for the record, I do agree with dredd and mike that whatever pistol YOU shoot well is the best pistol for you, reguardless of whatever else the pistol brings to the table.

  19. #39
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by brisk21 View Post
    or maybe, deactivate the manual safety, make sure you dont get hung up on the manuel decocker, make sure there is no obstruction between the fireing pin and the external hammer that can get snagged on your shirt on the way out of the holster, then fire.
    Yeah right...nice try

    It's definitely not as ridiculous as you say. I can't name one time ever where a proper holster, and proper practice would make an obstruction between the hammer and the firing pin, not to mention you are supposed to practice and with doing so you won't hit the decocker and won't even think about it. You're really reaching here, and I don't believe for a second that you could go with no experience and unholster your Glock or whatever striker fired pistol you choose and be accurate on target. That only comes through practice, and if you practice with ANY weapon system it becomes an extension of yourself. To say what you said is so far fetched it's just plain crazy.

  20. #40
    kenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    It gained a lot of allure from the NYC ban and being favored by rappers. [/B]
    I think it's because "Glock" does rhyme with quite a few of words.

    "I got a glock that say 'Pac run the bloc" - 2pac

    "I don't leave the block, without my Glock" (which is just good advice)
    G-Unit

    "Nothing left to do, but buy some shells for my glock "
    Snoop

    ...and then everyone wonders why rappers get shot.
    It would nice to hear "Fabrique Nationale" worked into a song every now and then.

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