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  1. #21
    INSTIEN's Avatar
    INSTIEN is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    Are you sure it was ah HK45 and NOT a USP? Because the HK45 is really comfortable and ergonomic, and it uses the match trigger from the USP series which is great. The trigger is very crisp. Your description doesn't seem accurate. If so then all I can say is wow, because every single person I know who has held an HK45 and/or fired it has either bought one or wanted to buy one.
    I actually completely agree with you on this one. A friend of mine absolutely sold me on the HK45 today. He just purchased a HK P30 9MM and me and him went out to the range for some testing. After which I decided the HK is definately my choice. A friend of his that tagged allong braught his Kimber 1911 out there with him. Side by side you could definately see the bulkiness of the HK compared to the 1911 but suprisingly enough it fit in my hands better, and more comfortably than the 1911. I didn't get to shoot the Kimber however I did shoot the P30. I do know there are shooting differences between a P30 and a HK45 but they are BASICALLY the same design. Seeing as how the HK fit my hands perfectly, felt great, fired great, I definately see my self buying the HK45.

    *EDIT*
    I would however love to find my self a HK Mark .23 SOCOM. I would still prefer that over the HK45. But they seem very hard to find. Not to mention expensive.
    *EDIT*

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  3. #22
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    Larry Vickers had an instrumental role in the development of the HK45 among other goodies from HK in recent years.
    Larry Vickers is certainly a respected name in the industry. But clearly he and I have very different ideas about service pistols, if he indeed drove the design of these pistols. Not a problem, diversity makes the world go 'round.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  4. #23
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    Larry Vickers is certainly a respected name in the industry. But clearly he and I have very different ideas about service pistols, if he indeed drove the design of these pistols. Not a problem, diversity makes the world go 'round.
    I always wished that more real world shooters and servicemen would put their ideas to usage in the firearms industry. Sometimes there's a great gun that's waiting to be realized, just needs a bit of smithing work and custom parts to get it there. Would be nice to have someone behind the design from the get go so that the gun is as good out of the box, as it can be with the custom work.

    Anyway, to the OP...can you take them all out and fire them? I know that the HK45 is new and hard to get, but maybe you'll find someone to let you try it? I also understand that a Kimber 1911 can be hard to find for rent. I have a range local to me that has a Kimber 1911 to try out, but I don't know how different their various models are so I really couldn't say if firing one would give a feel for them all or not.

    Obviously the real test is in your hands on the range, but how easy is it to do this testing prior to dropping multiple bills down on a gun?

  5. #24
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by INSTIEN View Post
    I actually completely agree with you on this one. A friend of mine absolutely sold me on the HK45 today. He just purchased a HK P30 9MM and me and him went out to the range for some testing. After which I decided the HK is definately my choice. A friend of his that tagged allong braught his Kimber 1911 out there with him. Side by side you could definately see the bulkiness of the HK compared to the 1911 but suprisingly enough it fit in my hands better, and more comfortably than the 1911. I didn't get to shoot the Kimber however I did shoot the P30. I do know there are shooting differences between a P30 and a HK45 but they are BASICALLY the same design. Seeing as how the HK fit my hands perfectly, felt great, fired great, I definately see my self buying the HK45.

    *EDIT*
    I would however love to find my self a HK Mark .23 SOCOM. I would still prefer that over the HK45. But they seem very hard to find. Not to mention expensive.
    *EDIT*
    A tuned 1911 trigger is very difficult to beat, even a custom worked match trigger on a Sig P210 would be difficult to compete with. That's the one thing that a 1911 has over everything else regardless of the overall feel of the gun.

    If you think you'd like a Mk23, I would honestly hope you know what you're getting yourself into. They're huge...I mean it, just large in every way possible. Shoot good if you can wield it though.

  6. #25
    INSTIEN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    A tuned 1911 trigger is very difficult to beat, even a custom worked match trigger on a Sig P210 would be difficult to compete with. That's the one thing that a 1911 has over everything else regardless of the overall feel of the gun.

    If you think you'd like a Mk23, I would honestly hope you know what you're getting yourself into. They're huge...I mean it, just large in every way possible. Shoot good if you can wield it though.

    I do like the triggers on the 1911's. I've heard many great things about them, and the one I shot (about a year ago) seemed great. I'm not a gun expert by all means. I'm actually about to buy my first pistol. I do have a couple of rifles...but no pistols.

    As far as the size of the Mk23 goes...I actually prefer larger pistols. I'm a pretty big guy (6'3" with hands big enough to palm a basketball with some to spare) so the larger pistols just feel better to me.

    One question...is it not possible to change out or upgrade the triggers on HK's? And if so got any resources I can look at?

  7. #26
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by INSTIEN View Post
    I do like the triggers on the 1911's. I've heard many great things about them, and the one I shot (about a year ago) seemed great. I'm not a gun expert by all means. I'm actually about to buy my first pistol. I do have a couple of rifles...but no pistols.

    As far as the size of the Mk23 goes...I actually prefer larger pistols. I'm a pretty big guy (6'3" with hands big enough to palm a basketball with some to spare) so the larger pistols just feel better to me.

    One question...is it not possible to change out or upgrade the triggers on HK's? And if so got any resources I can look at?
    HK offers pistol smithing work factory direct. They have 2 different trigger variants with the HK45. They have the standard trigger which is DA/SA but is actually the match trigger (custom work) from the USP series, this comes standard. Then you can get an LEM mod which lightens the DA pull and turns the trigger into a DAO (double action only) design. You can have the hammer cocked and safety on with the standard trigger or leave it in double action (hammer not cocked). You then have the option of going with an LEM with or without a safety. Honestly the DA/SA is fine. DA is hard to learn and get good at, but the SA is nice and easy. It doesn't have a reset that is as short as the 1911, but it's pretty good for "duty trigger" systems. By Duty trigger I mean it's not a super light trigger that is ment only for the range and competition use.

  8. #27
    SIGCrazie's Avatar
    SIGCrazie is offline Junior Member
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    I own both a Springfield 1911 Stainless Loaded .45 and an HK USP EXPERT .45. Yes, there is nothing like the fit of the 1911 in your hand, but there is something to say about the accuracy of an HK. The EXPERT is the first composite gun I've bought and I've changed my opinion on composite frames. I like them each for their own reasons and they each have their advantages. Buy what feels good in your hand and the gun that will fit it's purpose. Good luck.

  9. #28
    INSTIEN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    HK offers pistol smithing work factory direct. They have 2 different trigger variants with the HK45. They have the standard trigger which is DA/SA but is actually the match trigger (custom work) from the USP series, this comes standard. Then you can get an LEM mod which lightens the DA pull and turns the trigger into a DAO (double action only) design. You can have the hammer cocked and safety on with the standard trigger or leave it in double action (hammer not cocked). You then have the option of going with an LEM with or without a safety. Honestly the DA/SA is fine. DA is hard to learn and get good at, but the SA is nice and easy. It doesn't have a reset that is as short as the 1911, but it's pretty good for "duty trigger" systems. By Duty trigger I mean it's not a super light trigger that is ment only for the range and competition use.
    So you can actually only get the modified straight through HK only?

  10. #29
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by INSTIEN View Post
    So you can actually only get the modified straight through HK only?
    There's smiths that do HK work, but you can go directly to HK to get different trigger variations installed. That way everything is still covered by HK's lifetime warranty.

  11. #30
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    If I'm looking to get a 56 ACP I am more often than not looking for a 1911. I'm just not as big a fan of plastic guns. I've owned several and most of them I've owned or shot have been pretty good shooters..I just like the all metal more..Maybe I'm just old..heh. The one plastic gun I have is a Browning Pro 40. It's really nice and has the one thing I just got to have..A hammer. Are my all steels better than the "Tupperware"? For me yes.

    I'm not a Kimber fan though.They are really well made they just don't do for me what a Springfield,Colt, or a Para does for me.

  12. #31
    Dredd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilsJohnson View Post
    If I'm looking to get a 56 ACP I am more often than not looking for a 1911. I'm just not as big a fan of plastic guns. I've owned several and most of them I've owned or shot have been pretty good shooters..I just like the all metal more..Maybe I'm just old..heh. The one plastic gun I have is a Browning Pro 40. It's really nice and has the one thing I just got to have..A hammer. Are my all steels better than the "Tupperware"? For me yes.

    I'm not a Kimber fan though.They are really well made they just don't do for me what a Springfield,Colt, or a Para does for me.
    A Springfield 1911 is hard to beat for the money, Taurus 1911 is good for around $500 you get a bunch of nice features. I've also heard great things about S&W 1911 pistols (external extractor etc).

    It comes down to your usage, a 1911 is a better gun for the range I'll say that. You see many more 1911 fans in competition than other brands. Not to say that other brands don't have a following and competitive teams etc, but the 1911 is more or less the de facto standard for ISPC etc. I too like a hammer on my guns, which is why I prefer a HK over a Glock, M&P, or XD. I would take a 1911, but I find the polymer guns to be more reliable in less than ideal conditions.

  13. #32
    Teuthis is offline Member
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    Carry

    I would say that if you are going to carry a weapon concealed, get one that you will actually take with you all the time. That means, small, light, and reliable. And then practice with it until you can hit center mass and do headshots at ten feet. At distances much further than that, an armed citizen risks placing stray rounds into bystanders, in an urgent situation where one cannot stop and look around carefully. If I am not nose to nose with someone, I am most likely going to take cover, not start shooting.

    I am also not convinced, from experience, that the only caliber that works for self defense is the .45. At the ranges in which a citizen can engage in a defensive gunfight, almost any caliber will work. I think many people carrying concealed firearms are mentally preparing themselves for some kind of tactical duel that will never happen to a concealed carry permit holder.

    I suggest carrying a light, convenient weapon and learning to accurately point shoot with it; hand to eye and target to hand.

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