Help me with my logic. I heard a story the other day about a grizzly bear attack around here. The attack victim had a .357 magnum and shot the bear many times in the forehead with not one bullet penetrating its skull. He then shot it under the chin and this took the bear out. The man lived and is obviously a very lucky guy. (Maybe Captain Crunch knows more about this than I do?)
So if a .357 will not penetrate, we know a round from a FN Five-seveN would but my theory is that it would have to be well placed in the head to be effective since it is a small round but very fast. This bullet out of a handgun can penetrate kevlar at 100 meters.
So what say you? You think this would be a good self defense weapon against bear?
I would not use it in Big Bear country.
If a bear is coming at you and in handgun range shoot at Nostrils and mouth, not top of head. If it's not coming at you let it go away. Skull shots are not normaly at an acceptable angle and will ricochet off.
If he had time to reload a revolver (many shots in forehead) the bear was probably to far away when he first shot it. They move pretty fast. I might try one shot to turn it away but would try and hold the remainder till I could make good shots.
Get a 12 guage with slugs.
I'd be curious what kind of ammunition he was using. A normal 158g .357 hollow point can penetrate about a yard in ballistic gelatin, so something tells me he was probably using ~125g.
Wouldn't the length of the barrel make a difference as well?
I'm with TOF. If I seriously thought a bear attack was a possibility, I wouldn't rely on any puny, hard-to-shoot-well handgun. I'd tote a 12 gauge with slugs or a Marlin Guide Gun.
If confined to a handgun for some reason, I'd choose a .44 Magnum revolver as my minimum, not some dinky little glorified .22.
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Are you calling the first handgun caliber to ever penetrate an engine block a "Dinky little Glorified .22"? I've heard it all now! I think you've spent to much time in the desert, and qualify for a "Section 8".
I don't know, I think tnoisaw's on to something here.
I think Tony should conduct his bear experiment post haste. When you get the bear and that "glorified" 22 pistol lined up, holler at me. I'll donate some 5.7 ammo.
Anyone live close enough to tnoisaw to man the camcorder?
This is gonna' be good!
The story I heard it was hand to hand combat. It was only a story and it truthfullness is not known but it got me thinking.
Originally Posted by TOF
I can't experiment yet. Most of the bears are still sleeping for the winter. Maybe I should go wake one up. Dang, Glacier Park is still snowed in. I'll have to wait a while till they clear the roads. Of course, I'd then be breaking the law by carrying in the park. I just can't seem to get a break.
If I were to perform the type experiment called for in this post the bear should be sleeping. We can move on to awake bear after the theory has been well proven.
I'm absolutely no expert, but the advice I got when asking the question, was nothing less than a .44 in bear country. In fact, the shop owner laughed when I said something like is a .357 enough?
I have three uncles that guide up in Alaska, and two of them carry 12gauge with slugs and the other carrys a .44 magnum.
The front part of a bears skull is strong enough to bounce even high powered rifles off of if the bears nose is pointing where the bullet is coming from. It basically is best to shoot for the lower jaw and nose as pointed out earlier. Shoot a bear once just pisses it off, shooting it 5 or 6 times with a slug gun will do the trick.
One incident they had, a guy from overseas came up, bought a brand new gun, scope equipment. Went on guide trip. Shot the bear at about 90 yards. In less than the time it takes for the average person to stand up from prone, the bear had already taken 7 slugs and covered the 90 yards. Dropped dead at their feet. They don't mess around with bear. As soon as the client shoots, they open up on it. They won't take jobs without doing that unless the shooter is an experienced enough hunter to put a bullet where they say they will. People die when bears get pissed off!
well at least thats 90yrds that they don't have to drag it. I wish I could shoot a deer and then have it come lay down at my feet.
I would imagine you wouldn't have to worry about cleaning out your shorts if a deer did that though hehehe.
My family went salmon fishing on he Kenia (spelling) peninnsula in Alaska.
RIGHT ON THE FISHING LICENSE it stated that fishermen should carry a rifle ".308 or more powerful" while fishing, because the brown bears may "contest your right to their fish".
We had a Remington .308 pump with us at all times. We had a "little" 450-500 bear wander down river and check us over from the opposite bank. My dad had a 48" King Salmon hooked at the time. It took him about 45 minutes to land, with the bear wandering back and forth and watching the show for about 15 of it. He got bored and wandered back up stream.
This 1.5-2.5 year old bear had absolutely NO FEAR of 5-6 humans about 50yds away across the river. Nor did he really show agression, just curisosity. One of the other fishermen had a big ball canning jar full of salmon eggs in the bank, and immediately (under protest to his "guide") dumped them in the river and washed out the jar. The guide suggested that the bear could smell salmon "caviar" from a half mile away, and that was his primary interest.
Between us, we had our .308 pump, and the other fisherman's .44 Mag Redhawk Revolver.
I'm glad he stayed his side of the river and didn't test us out.
I was attacked by black bears once; yes, several of them. They are immensely powerful and even though a .357 may get some penetration into their skulls, it would most likely enrage them to increase their attacks before killing them. They are fast, they know how to fight and they are a lot tougher than we are.
After I was attacked, and unarmed, I began to carry a fixed-sight S&W model 57, 41 magnum. I also carried a .44 mag at times, and sometimes even my Marlin 45-70 rifle. In the revolvers I always carried full jacketed, heavy bullets, for penetration. Fortunately for the bears, and myself, I have never been attacked again, though I did have "encounters" that made me quite happy to be armed.
In Grizzly territory I would certainly have a .44 mag as a last chance weapon, but I would much rather have a powerful brush rifle, like the 45-70 or better as a first line of defense. I personally think you have to let them get too close for comfort to kill them with a handgun.
This is fun to read about I don't want no bear eating me so I always go with friends that I can out-run
NC had or has the Boon and Crockett record for largest bear about 3hrs east of me. We have 'slogged' all around; deer, coon, fox and occasional rabbit; Bear signs ever where. I carry a .44 handgun and they carry 45-70's; I'm a fair shot, they are ?better? than average.
I can outrun all of them
Good plan, Craig! I think if I were to get into bear country I'd feel most secure with a shotgun loaded with lots of slugs or heavy buck shot. As previously mentioned, a handgun might be nice, I just don't want to be that close to a bear with a bad attitude! I've never had an encounter with a pissed off bear and would like to keep it that way!
Originally Posted by neophyte
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