9mm Single Stack Sub-Compact - Suggestions
I gave my Colt DS to my mother-in-law and have decided to retire the PPK to standardize the whole family on 9mm.
I'm now in the market for a sub-compact for office wear. I don't want to miss out on a good alternative so I'm looking for suggestions.
Here are my requirements (no budging):
single stack slim
< 1lb unloaded
must have an available leather ankle holster (pref with garter)
< $500 New
I've already looked at:
Kahr PM9 (perfect but too expensive)
Walther PPS (a little overweight)
Have you looked at the Kahr CW9. It meets all of your requirements. You can find them new for $400-$425. They weigh right around a pound and you can go to Kahr.com and view the leather ankle holster they have. They are only slightly larger than the PM9 but I think easier to shoot. They are identical to the more expensive P9 except the slide is not machined as fancy (same material though), they use standard rifling barrels instead of polygonial rifling and the slide release is MIM instead of CNC. You can go to Kahr.com to see them compared to other Kahrs. I have one and love it. I think it is the best subcompact in that price range.
I will very likely buy a PF9 when I get back to the States. It meets your criteria, but reliability is still something of a question. I will put mine through the wringer, of course, before I carry it. At $265 NIB, it's not much of an investment.
I am not sure on leather ankle holsters for it, though. I haven't looked for one since I plan on using the PF9 for pocket carry. Once I get it, though, I will see about convincing Galco to make an ankle holster for it.
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I bought my PF-9 last week and have run just over 150 rounds through it. In my previous posts under the Kel-Tec sub-forum I've tracked my experiences so far. In summary:
First outing with my reloads. Over fifty rounds with out any failures. Stopped the outing because an out of spec reload stuck in the chamber without fully seating. I didn't have the tools to fix the problem on site so ended this session prematurely - in addition it started raining and the wind picked up substantially.
Second outing with 100 rounds factory WWB 115 FMJ, seven rounds of Federal 124 JHP, and seven more rounds of reloads. Federals fired first without a bobble. Eighty-four rounds of WWB fired without a problem. Eighty-fifth round fired and failed to eject - possibly limp wristing on my part as I was a) trying some point shooting from the hip, and b) getting worn out by the pounding I was taking from shooting service loads from a light weapon. Ninety-second round fired, but ninety-third round nose dived because I failed to seat the magazine securely. Last seven rounds, my reloads, fire without problems.
I've decided to limit my sessions to no more than fifty rounds to avoid developing bad habits from the heavy recoil. I will continue to start each session by emptying the magazine containing my choice of SD rounds - Federal 124 gr JHP and following that magazine with my reloads of 115 gr plated Berry bullets over 4.5 gr of HP-38.
69Roadrunner... I too have been looking at the PF9. From what I've been reading, the trigger leaves a lot to be desired. Some report the trigger is really hard on the trigger finger with it going all the way forward after each shot. One guy reported after 50 rounds his finger was really sore.
Any inputs on that? Thanks....
If I were looking for a compact 9mm with the requirements you listed above, I'd head straight to the gun shop and buy a Kahr CW9 without hesitation! If you can afford the $500 (Taxes & all) there are no others to consider. If you were strapped and had to go cheap, then the PF9 would be the choice. However, I'd never be truly comfortable with it!
Originally Posted by submoa
Take at look at this review: http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_gm1205.html
I would also second (or third - l lost track...) the CW9 idea. It's only about a half-inch longer/taller than a CW, but a whole lot less expensive. The one I used functions perfectly for it's owner, and I've also read a fair number of positive comments on this and several other boards.
AFAIK. there's really only two pistols that meet your requirements - the CW and the PF (the PPS is over your price limit). I like my KT P3AT, but between these two, it would be no contest, and the KT would loose.
The S&W CS9 might also fall within your specifications, but I'm not sure. Might be worth a trip to their website though....
The trigger is actually quite nice. I have a Taurus model 85 which I also shoot double action and find that the PF-9's trigger is actually lighter and smoother. - I haven't compared it to my four-inch S&W Model 19 yet, but probably will at some point. There is some trigger slap that will make one's trigger finger sore with extended shooting sessions. However, I understand that some shooters mitigate the problem by either attaching a trigger shoe or smoothing the trigger face by sanding.
I'm of the opinion that this is a pistol designed for serious social work and not for extended range time. Accordingly, as stated before, I think I'll limit my sessions to fifty rounds. This pistol is more than accurate enough for its intended purposes and probably a lot more accurate than I am capable of shooting with it right now - practice makes perfect.
There have been reports of users "short stroking" the trigger, i.e. not fully resetting the trigger by not allowing it to go completely forward. I have duplicated the condition by using snap caps but, having been forewarned, have not had the problem with live ammo. As with any firearm, familiarity is absolutely paramount and a user would be foolish not to take the time to learn how to use his/her weapon.
I know there are probably better pocket pistols out there. However, for the price - $260 plus tax - its hard to argue the utility value of the light and compact Kel-Tec PF-9. My Belgium made Browning Hi-Power is nicer to shoot and to look at, but is hardly comfortable to carry IWB. The same holds true for the Colt Government Model which I used to carry in an Askins Avenger belt holster while working part-time for my buddy at his gun store (wish I was still doing that given the cost of ammo and reloading supplies these days).
Originally Posted by AZ Outlaws
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