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  1. #21
    gene is offline Member
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    how much is enough

    I switch off with 5" 1911 and CZ-75 compact

  2. #22
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    Hello, sir. Yes, I believe that "9mm is enough" with rounds that make the most of its ballistic capabilities. I have personally seen the effects of both 9mm and .45 ACP against humans and both can "work" splendidly...and not so well at other times.

    We ask a lot of our handguns and seek the elusive "one shot stop", which probably doesn't exist for physiological reasons unless we get a solid central nervous system hit.

    Speaking only for myself, "placement is power." In other words, if you have a cartridge of adequate power for expansion and sufficient penetration, your ability to shoot that cartridge/gun combination outweighs just caliber/load characteristics. If you can get the hit or hits with the 9mm, go for it and I think you are about as well protected as you can be with any handgun caliber normally associated with self-protection. If you do just as well with a .45 ACP, then the decision boils down to which you prefer, magazine capacity or heavier caliber, Glock 21's, XD's, and some others being the exception as they hold lots of forty-five rounds.

    I use both 9mm and .45 ACP on ocassions when I tote a "serious" pistol. I believe that the .45 ACP with the best loads probably is more potent than the 9mm with similar loads, but I do not believe that the difference is quite so great as some other folks might. It is not enough that I'd carry a forty-five I couldn't hit with in lieu of a 9mm that I could.

    Most of us would probably opt for some sort of long gun if we knew a deadly force confrontation was coming and:

    1. We couldn't have a SWAT team to intercede, or
    2. We couldn't escape and avoid the whole thing.

    The problem is that we likely won't wake up knowing that today's the day I get into a shooting situation and we won't have an FAL, AR15, or shotgun at hand. We will probably have our defensive handgun, which is underpowered compared to about any 12 ga. shotgun load or rifle round at typical defense ranges.

    Thus, it seems to me that we want:

    1. A reliable handgun,
    2. In adequate caliber that we can handle,
    3. Loaded with expanding ammunition,
    4. Coupled with the actual willingness to shoot if no other reasonable alternative exists and the skill to do it effectively.

    Much debate exists over what is "adequate" and "best" loads for these calibers, but to me it seems that even more important are reliability, skill, and the proper mindset.


    I'm about as happy with a 9mm Hi Power loaded with high-performance ammunition as anything. This one is usually loaded with either Corbon's 115-gr. DPX or Winchester 127-gr. +P+ Ranger RA9TA ammunition.


    Today there are a number of rounds that seem to "work" well. From left to right: Federal 115-gr. JHP, Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P, Hornady 125-gr. XTP (TAP), Winchester 127-gr. +P+, Remington 147-gr. Golden Saber, and Speer 147-gr. Gold Dot.


    Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P seems to expand reliably in about any "soft" target it hits and does so with or without intermediate barriers.

    Best.

  3. #23
    Method's Avatar
    Method is offline Member
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    Great post Mr. Stephen A. Camp. 8)

  4. #24
    Richard's Avatar
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    For carry purposes I prefer the 45acp. Would I feel unarmed with a 9mm loaded with good ammo? No. Regards, Richard

  5. #25
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    highrider is offline Junior Member
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    I carry an XD9 subcompact with Hydroshocks. Always goes bang and is surprisingly accurate for a sc.

  6. #26
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    AFS

  7. #27
    P97
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    Re: how much is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by michael t
    Would you rather carry a 9mm in a hi cap pistol or a 45 single stack 1911 type. Lets get the 9mm 45 debate going right away then maybe it will go away
    Since this is a personal choice, my choice has been the .45 for several years. It's not that I would feel undergunned with anything less, but I just like the .45.

  8. #28
    jonathon is offline Junior Member
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    Wow, hey look, my first post here!

    Anyways... my personal preference is .45 auto. Not really because it's "better" than 9mm, but just what I like. Though, I'd take a Glock 21 over a 1911 any day

    My personal opinion on the defensive handgun caliber debate is that, when it comes to the common calibers(9mm, .357 SIG, .40, .45), they are poor man killers. Looking at their performance, seems there is a wide gap, but compared to a rifle or shotgun, those "wide performance gaps" between common handgun calibers become marginal at best. This of course is not counting those big bore hand cannons

    I prefer the Glock 21 because I shoot it best, felt recoil is minimal(less than my old 17 even), accuracy is very good, and it fits my hand very well. It's also the only pistol that seems "natural" to shoot for me, almost as if it was an extension of my body. I have a very hard time shooting my other pistols, and really have to focus, but with the Glock I got it made 8)

    It all boils down to personal preference, choose a pistol that you shoot well and that fits you good, thats what counts.

    On a side note, this thread seems a lot more civil than threads on other boards.. hmmm

  9. #29
    1911driver is offline Junior Member
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    .45 ACP

    I prefer and have carried a Commander sized .45 ACP for years. Have two magazines with 7 rds. of a JHP (any brand) in each.......no problems..

  10. #30
    Hal8000's Avatar
    Hal8000 is offline Member
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    Because I reload, I prefer to have fewer calibers to have to stock components for... My favorites are .45 ACP or the 9mm... I'm comfortable with either one. For the last year or so I've been switching off between my Sig P220 (.45) and my Walther P99 (9mm) depending on how I feel that particular day. Some times the decision is made on the method of carry I have available and not the pistol itself...

    I'm a proponent of bullet placement...

  11. #31
    Axiom's Avatar
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    I am glad that everyone is discussing this nicely without starting caliber wars.

    I see that on many other sites.

  12. #32
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    Hello. I fully agree and almost never enter into these threads because of the inability of some to discuss without getting rude or seemingly having a near stroke. Seems like it must be a knowledgeable and good crew here.

    Best.

  13. #33
    imported_js Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen A. Camp
    Hello. I fully agree and almost never enter into these threads because of the inability of some to discuss without getting rude or seemingly having a near stroke. Seems like it must be a pretty good crew here.

    Best.
    +1

    hopefully it will stay that way... But there's aways one or two that will come around and try to start something.

  14. #34
    Dragon is offline Junior Member
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    I was always a .45 fan because of the way it felt when shot. I know to some that might sound weird but the .45 pushed more towards me as the 9mm's I shot had kind of a twist to them. I recently got a S&W Mod 39 that shoots like a dream. So, I carry both now. Some days a 1911 some days the 39. I don't feel underpowered with the 9mm just finally found one I enjoy shooting and can shoot accuratly.

  15. #35
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Almost any gun will do -- if you will do.

    Caliber selection is at the bottom of list after important things like mindset, training, tactics, combatives skill, marksmanship ability, gun reliability, and actually having the gun with you when you need it.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

    Donate to the Christian and Stephanie Nielson Recovery fund: http://www.nierecovery.com/.

    All opinions, particularly those involving politics and Glocks, are mine and not Galco's.

  16. #36
    tony pasley's Avatar
    tony pasley is offline Senior Member
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    1911 45acp has been and will continue to take care of business most tried and true firearm ever madeif god carried it would be a 1911

  17. #37
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    spacedoggy is offline Senior Member
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    Glock 30 Best of both worlds. It's compact with 10 rds of 45 and my extra mag has 13 rds of 45.

  18. #38
    Maximo's Avatar
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    These are my two favorite rounds. However I have read so many shooting reports where the larger 45 had no more effect than the 9mm I would rather have more rounds. With both rounds producing close to the same in, foot pounds of energy, shot placement is paramount. If the shot hits a vital organ either will do the job with a good defense round. I prefer the 45 to shoot, I like the recoil better, but for carry I prefer 9mm, higher capacity and much less expensive to shoot, that means more range time to work on shot placement. I just switched to a M&P 9mm with 17+1, it replaced my Baby Eagle as my carry gun with its' tiny capacity of only 15+1. :-D

  19. #39
    Hal8000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham at Galco
    Almost any gun will do -- if you will do.

    Caliber selection is at the bottom of list after important things like mindset, training, tactics, combatives skill, marksmanship ability, gun reliability, and actually having the gun with you when you need it.
    Bingo that! I could not agree with you more Mike! My sentiments exactly!

  20. #40
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is online now HGF Forum Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal8000
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham at Galco
    Almost any gun will do -- if you will do.

    Caliber selection is at the bottom of list after important things like mindset, training, tactics, combatives skill, marksmanship ability, gun reliability, and actually having the gun with you when you need it.
    Bingo that! I could not agree with you more Mike! My sentiments exactly!
    I disagree. I could shoot SO much better with the next gun on my list that my wife won't let me buy

    DOesn't matter what the gun is - just the next one on my list :P :P :P

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