After reading good reports about the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P around HGF I made the switch. Just received 4 boxes of the LE version, which is the same round but packed in 50 instead of 20.
For anyone that's interested I got them from Ammo-to-go for $24.95 a box(50). Shipping was reasonable, $9.50 from TX to CA. They currently have it in stock. Here's the link:
I guess a lot of the democrats who oppose the use of guns think that a bullet that is intended to incapacitate a BG as quickly as possible is designed to kill him.
I get a lot of flak for wanting a shotgun for HD. I assure people that a BG coming up the steps won't feel a thing.
I'm not sure if groups like Blackwater are under the same restraints. Since they are private contractors, I'd guess they could carry whatever they wanted.
I'm aware of the Geneva Convention's constraints on military use of hollowpoint ammunition. I was referring to civilian use...IMO, if someone is deserving of a few bullets in SD, the person acting in SD should be able to use whatever kind of ammunition they want, whether it be non-expanding, expanding, fragmenting, etc. I remember reading somewhere that the Geneva Convention also prohibited military use of flechettes.
I don't have much experience with different types of ammo. To be honest, I've always had either Remington or Winchester FMJs loaded until a friend recently gave a box of Winchester 147gr JHPs. To me, a quality Full Metal Jacketed round has been good enough so far.
http://www.thegunzone.com/hague.htmlDo you have a reference for that? It's news to me. I believe SEALs used suppressed HK P9S pistols many years ago, in a limited capacity, and there is that silly HK Mk. 23 "SOCOM" pistol that seems to spend more time in the arms room than in the field. Anyway, the SEALs have been issuing the P226 since the 1980s, and the USP wasn't introduced until 1993, so the dates don't seem to add up.They used to issue the USP from HK, but it became expensive to keep in service compared to Sig and HK lost the contract.The contractors I've seen here almost all have M4s and either Beretta 92s or Glocks 9mms. One guy had a wide-body 1911 that looked like an STI at a glance. I don't know what they are carrying for ammo, though.I'm not sure if groups like Blackwater are under the same restraints. Since they are private contractors, I'd guess they could carry whatever they wanted.
I guess some info is more rumor than fact. Or, perhaps it was just that they did have access to HK pistols that may not have been used in active combat duty. Either way, thanks for correcting that.
I know that the contractors carry some form of automatic rifle. I was referring to their backup gun or sidearm. Didn't know if they were all using the same thing or what. It's hard to keep up with because you hear things that may come from people who don't know what they're talking about. Sig offers a Blackwater edition P226 but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the exact one they use in service but maybe they do.
I guess he loads his M9 blindfolded each time. Cuz gov issue has never been nothing better than fmj. At least i've never ever seen anything more in all the m9s. You'd be blessed to get a clean box.
And aint no fmj 9mm is gonna over penetrate nothing unless you dang near put the gun to somebodys head. At that point, ur a assainating some firggen body. Come on man
It means that the bullet penetrates a soft target too far. Doesn't have to go through someone. JHP was designed to expand and slow down inside a soft target such as a BG. It was also designed to create a larger wound channel and cause more trauma. Many modern bullets retain near 100% of their weight after expansion.
But it's not what I'd choose if I had a choice. You understand the difference, right?You are completely misinformed. NYPD, for example, got away from 9mm ball because they had so many cases of perforation on human targets. Those exiting FMJ bullets, which according to you "ain't gonna overpenetrate" hit a total of 5 uninvolved bystanders in that crowded city, as well as 17 police officers. 14 suspects were also killed by bullets that perforated other suspects. That's a total of 36 people. These were all FMJ 9mm bullets that had already passed through other people before they hit a second person.And aint no fmj 9mm is gonna over penetrate nothing unless you dang near put the gun to somebodys head. At that point, ur a assainating some firggen body. Come on man
(These stats came from an NYPD report quoted verbatim in The New York Times.)
In tests in ballistic gelatin, 9mm ball typically digs to 24+", with some examples going to 28". "Acceptable" penetration per the FBI protocols ends at 16", and most sources prefer 11-14" of depth. Most good modern JHPs fall somewhere in the 11-16" range.
If you prefer ball ammo in 9mm, that's okay with me. It's your life. I just hope I am not downrange if you have to fire in defense, like all those unlucky people in New York. I also hope, for their sake, none of your family members are anywhere behind the bad guy.
There have been too many cases where the type of weapon used was used as evidence against someone in a PD situation and an uninformed jury hung them out to dry.
DA would likely say something like "This shotgun, is typically used for hunting purposes. In this case, it's clear that the defendant was in full awareness of his situation and used the said firearm with intent to kill <insert name here>. He was using a weapon which is more powerful than what was necessary."
It can go on and on. It's really tough...best idea is to avoid having to shoot at all cost.
Sounds like the general consensus is a 124 gr JHP so later this year when I get my SR9 I'll start with a a factory loading and then load up some practice rounds with brass I scrounge at the range.
Thanks for the help.
Those uninformed juries probably also follow the misconception that buckshot has less potential to perforate walls.
All I would tell them is I heard something downstairs, and instead of being a jackass and setting out to look for him, I did the smart thing and waited until he came to me, at which point he is the one initiating a confrontation. He's a home invader, and in my home. We have the Castle Doctrine, so any use of deadly physical force I choose to use to protect myself is justifiable.
And like I said, nobody feels a load of 00 buck hit them in the top of the head. I will get a positive ID on a target before I fire, but if the person sneaking up the steps is indeed in my home uninvited, they'll get plugged.
Now I need to go out and get a shotgun.