I guessed that was what you meant but I wanted to be sure. It was a little unclear. I know he asked about American manufacturers but he stated it was just curiousity and not a requirement for his purchase.
throw a dart
you are down to the sigs
all big and heavy and clunky
hope you like it
From the limited experience I have with the XD series I would recommend it. I like the grip angle and the width of the grip. I haven't shot any of the compacts yet but I am really interested in them. One in .40 S&W may be my next purchase.
For a weapon that is going to live part of it's life in a vehicle I would recommend a polymer frame with a stainless slide.
I also believe the XD is going to be around for a long time with many aftermarket options in the future. The XD is a inexpensive pistol but not a cheap pistol IMHO.
The money you save on the base pistol can be spent on night sights, a good holster, and extra ammo.
What's interesting is there are also copies of proven designs...
Such as the Taurus beretta copies that have been intriguing me.. Taurus bought up a Beretta facilities in Brazil (where most their guns seem to be made) and share the Beretta technology.. So you could get a Beretta 92FS or Taurus PT92 (look the same except for subtle differences such as safety/decocker on the slide vs frame.. but there's huge price difference and are they the same quality/reliability/accuracy? hmmmm I don't think so just from what I'm reading on the boards)
Then you also have the copies of the CZ pistols by folks like Tanfoglio (Italian) who I know nothing about , but imported by EAA (European American Arms).. calling it the EAA Witness (looks intriguing).. Copy of the 75B CZ. Then there's the Baby Desert Eagle (one of my short-picks.. nice) that's basically another CZ copy and I've read it's a darn good one.. produced by IMI (Isreali Military Industries) which is supposed to be a very good quality armory...
Confused yet?? I sure am. hehehe
Pretty much you can pick a route of action type.. such as 1911 style (a gazillion to chose from), CZ 75 style (I think is a modified browning hi-power style.. I think the Ruger P series is also similar), beretta 92 style, Glock / S&W / XD internal striker-fire style, etc.
... it's enough to say "screw it!! I'm getting a wheel gun!" hehehe but I bet that's as big a can of worms.
I guess with the luxury of much in the market to chose from, comes the daunting task of far more companies, guns and gun-types to learn about.
... sorry.. shutting up now to learn more from the guys here that actually do indeed know what they're talking about.
The Taurus 92/99 series are very reliable, though perhaps not quite as well-assembled as a Beretta. However, the design of the safety/decocking lever leaves much to be desired. If you carry the Taurus cocked-and-locked, as the three-position safety allows, when you thumb down the safety under stress, you may push it all the way to the "decock" position. Bad design, in my opinion.Such as the Taurus beretta copies that have been intriguing me.. Taurus bought up a Beretta facilities in Brazil (where most their guns seem to be made) and share the Beretta technology.. So you could get a Beretta 92FS or Taurus PT92 (look the same except for subtle differences such as safety/decocker on the slide vs frame.. but there's huge price difference and are they the same quality/reliability/accuracy? hmmmm I don't think so just from what I'm reading on the boards)
I used to own a PT99 with the old-style Taurus safety, which was better. It worked as a true selective DA. Either hammer down, or cocked and locked, but no hammer-dropping feature.
I really fail to see the point of the CZ copies anymore. Back during the Cold War when you couldn't get a CZ for less than $1500 (1980s money!), they made some sense. But now the CZ are very reasonably priced, and a superb bargain. Why not get the genuine article?Then you also have the copies of the CZ pistols by folks like Tanfoglio (Italian) who I know nothing about , but imported by EAA (European American Arms).. calling it the EAA Witness (looks intriguing).. Copy of the 75B CZ. Then there's the Baby Desert Eagle (one of my short-picks.. nice) that's basically another CZ copy and I've read it's a darn good one.. produced by IMI (Isreali Military Industries) which is supposed to be a very good quality armory...
Most of the CZs offer selective DA lockwork, meaning you can carry cocked-and-locked or hammer down. The Rugers have non-selective DA, meaning you can only carry hammer-down. I strongly prefer cocked-and-locked carry, and so I like the CZ design much more.CZ 75 style (I think is a modified browning hi-power style.. I think the Ruger P series is also similar),
It's mainly personal preference, of course.
I can see when you need it to go bang fast, that extra possible delay with a decocker error can be a very very bad thing.
Don't the Beretta's decock as well though?? Or is the M9 different than the 92F's or FS's?
I keep coming back to drooling at their metal-frame design, large capacity, their inverted full slide and grip setup. It's high on my not-so short list.. maybe a 97B in .45.
I own a Taurus PT 92. The possibility of accidently de-cocking was a concern. Once I tried it, I realized that the design has a "click" when you safety off. The de-cock requires that you depress down on a spring which brings the control back to the ready(safety off) position. BTW, the hammer only goes down to a notch, and is still not at a complete rest, and results in a shorter D.A.
I think of that feature as an improvement over the backwards European "up to de-cock "design. It also gives me the option of Condition One carry, if I ever get that good.
The PT92 series is a copy of the Beretta design, prety much, although many parts are no longer interchangable due to improvements incorporated by Taurus. The Beretta is a bit more refined in workmanship. In my case, I am not worried about the difference of one inch groups at 50 feet. I'm more worried about reliability. I've only had one FTF in about 800 rounds(still new), and that was round number 60ish with crappy range loads.
My 92 is a little large for everyday CCW, and it is set-up for a H.D. / SHTF gun. I put a laserlye on it for that purpose. Under dark gun, dark room conditions I like that the red dot instantainiously tells me where the muzzle is pointed if I ever have check on that "bump in the night".
Assuming I fall in love with Sig's DAK trigger and that is, in fact, the gun that I get, what do you guys think about the .357 Sig caliber in comparison to the 9mm?
As far as the .357 Sig round itself, I personally love it. My Glock was a .357 Sig and it was the most accurate handgun I have had the privelege of shooting so far. However, you need to have a few considerations about buying it over a 9mm. What do you want to do with the firearm? If its mostly range and then self defense at home, I would say probably 9mm would be fine. If you are looking at CCW all the time, I would personally prefer the .357 Sig. The .357 doesn't really have that much more recoil, but imo it has better stopping power. Another consideration is the availability of ammo in your area and price of the ammo. Some have noted trouble finding ammo for the .357 and it is usually about 1.5x to 2x as expensive as the 9mm ammo. As I have told others though, you can look into the Georgia Arms Company and buy Speer ammo from them for about half what any other brand would cost you in the store. I have shot their ammo for years and never once had a failure of any sorts. You can buy FMJ, JHP, and even +p and +p+ ammo from them. Most people are probably going to tell you to go with the 9mm though. Really depends on what you like and not what I like.
I found a webpage a retired cop started that was showing ballistics and pros and cons of the .357Sig. It seems like it has quite a few strong points. I just don't want something that feels like a horse is kicking you in the hand when you shoot it. On the other hand, I don't want to buy a gun and then 2 months down the road wish I would have bought something a little more powerful. I'm in pursuit of the "perfect" all around handgun, but I'm not sure it exists, lol.
They do, and the M9 is exactly the same (alas!). But they don't try, like the Taurus, to be all things to all people. My general opinion is that items that try to do a lot of things at once seldom do any one thing very well. I think the Taurus safety falls into that category.Don't the Beretta's decock as well though?? Or is the M9 different than the 92F's or FS's?
If you carry either gun with the hammer down and the safety off, you'll likely be fine.
Yup. Same with a CZ75. Not a big deal, really, if you do it properly. But of course I never used the DA feature on the Taurus, nor do I use it on the wife's CZ when I shoot it.... so if you wanted hammer-down with a chambered round, you did it old school by thumb and trigger to let down the hammer?
Hammer down on a live round, safety/decocking dingus "off," is a perfectly safe mode of carry for anyone who can be trusted to carry a pistol. No need to make your one-hand gun into a two-hand gun by carrying empty chamber.I'd probably carry hammer down, probably without a chambered round, as a civilian toting my piece to the gun range, but I'm also admittedly ignorant to the whole concept of carrying a loaded weapon anywhere except the woods on hunt for brown tasty critters.
I can barely tell a .357SIG from a .40, and it seems similarly snappy. I think it recoils considerably harder than 9mm - which is entirely expected since it is more powerful - though it is certainly not uncontrollable in reasonably well-practiced hands.
Well now that I think about it mine did have a compensated barrel and that helped but I still don't think its anything to worry about. BTW you mentioned something about a Sig I think. If you hadn't noticed someone is trying to sell a brand new SAS type P229 I think it was on the classified section of these forums. You might find a good deal there. Can't remember what caliber it was off the top of my head though.
Edit- Nm they sold that one I just saw. However keep an eye out there you may find something.
Speaking of a .357 Mag, Dad has a 4" SS Rossi. I think it's time I shoot it just to see what it feels like. I know it won't be anything like the semi-autos, but who knows... I might not mind the feel of it and I won't be so worried about whether or not a .347SIG or .45ACP or whatever is manageable.
Notes to self:
1- Shoot .357 mag
2- Rent various semi-autos in different calibers and different actions from gun range
3- Purchase gun that is most fun to shoot and practical to own
4- Enjoy gun
5- Post pics on handgunforum.net
Shoot some .38 specials in your dad's gun first and see how that feels. Then when you are ready for a bigger bang and more recoil try the .357 magnum rounds in it and see what you think. Good plan though from what I can see. GL and looking forward to those pics.
The purchase time is near and I'm still in the theoretical stage. I haven't had a chance to go to a range, so my choices are based solely on reviews. The little angel on my shoulder says that the 9mm choices are the safe bets, but the little devil on the other side says to "do it right" and get the P239 in .357SIG. I ask myself, if I could only ever own one handgun, would I be happy with a 9mm? I'm not so sure. Would I want more power? I think I would... I attibute that to the "if you don't have it, you'll need it" mechanism in my brain. If I could own two handguns, which I can, would I be happier with a .22 for target shooting and then the .357SIG for the serious side? I think I might. I've been reading a lot about guns and I still haven't decided what to do. When I first started compiling my list, I really favored the double-stacks for the capacity, but after reading and reading and reading and asking myself different questions, I think a single-stack is the way to go if you MUST trust your life on it.
I know many people have already replied to this thread and it might be unlikely that it'll grab anyone's attention since it is old, but I ask one thing of anyone that replies after this post.
Please select one gun from my first post and briefly explain why it is the best choice. Think of the gun that is most likely to help you and/or your family get out of harm's way. Think of harm in many different ways. Bear? Human? Lost and hungry? Feel free to add other situations.
I appreciate everyone's input.
One newb to another.... Go shoot 'em if you can rent 'em.
Get to know the actions, safeties, triggers etc. It's worth it and it sure beats work. You may find some surprising answers when you bust a few rounds at how the different guns shoot and how the targets look when you reel them in.. I found out a nice thing about Ruger P series.. I can shoot them. I also found out I wasn't so hot with the XD, and also that I'd have to have a fat fat grip if it were a revolver. But that's me... Everyone's hands, eyes, coordination, etc.. All different. May save you some buyer's remorse later.
Can't buy a car just on specs, reviews and gas mileage.. You gotta drive it if you can and even that doesn't tell you for sure that it's the perfect car for you.. There are still things about my new ride that simply p@$$ me off to no end.