10 mm snub nose
I am looking for a 10 mm snubbie for backwoods camping. I have no preference for any company. It would be nice to have it so I can switch to different calibers with the same gun. I don't expect that to be the case with any though. This needs to be able to kill hogs and bears. And I do have my mind set in 10 mm not .44 magnum.
Being that 10MM is perdominatley a rare semi-auto chambering, good luck. S&W did at one time have a 10MM revolver, but I've never seen it in a snub-nosed variant.
Short of getting the long barreled version and having it chopped you're left with either contacting the S&W Custom Shop or going with an auto like the Glock 29.
In all honesty, a 10MM snubby revolver isn't going to offer any more, or any less than a .357 Magnum Snub-nosed which the gun and amm willl be easier to find.
I wish you well in your quest.
Edited to add:
See if you can find. S&W 310 Nightguard Revolver, there weren't many made but it's probably the closest you'll get.
I'm with VAMarine. As in why ?
Originally Posted by jsm2
Whatever, if 10 mm floats your boat.
S&W 310 or 610 ? I don't really know much, I don't think there are a lot of revolvers in 10mm, since it was developed as a rimless semi-auto cartridge with more go-power than .45 ACP.
I'm just guessing, but I think a 10 mm semi-auto would need half or full moon clips to use in a revolver ?
And the advantage over .357 or .44 Magnum revolver cartridges is ?
Me, I just went up to a Ruger Alaskan snubby in .454 Casull. Which can also shoot "low-powered" .45 Long Colt. I kinda like a rimmed cartridge for revolvers. YMMV.
Yeah, will need moon clips.
Here's a link to the 310, I'm pretty sure its out of production
But there are a couple out there on GunsAmerica/Gunbroker.
Your probably going to be disappointed. The 10 mm Nightguard is pretty much just an oddity. Admittedly a cool oddity, but if your not obsessed, it's probably not worth the trouble. Ruger made a Vaquero in 10 mm, but, again, an obscure variant & not a snubbie without a trip to a custom shop.
I also suspect that 10 mm performance from a snub nosed revolver would be underwhelming, in much the same way that there is a noticeable loss in regular magnum chamberings in a snubbie. Between the cylinder gap and the short barrel, you might not be much ahead of a compact .40 S&W semi auto when it's all said and done. Especially considering that most 10mm factory ammo reputedly isn't really as stout as it could/should be. It would be interesting to research this and see, if one were so inclined.
Also, considering that you are talking about potentially dealing with bears, bring enough gun. You say you don't want a .44 mag? Fine, how about a nice 10.4 mm revolver, otherwise known as the .41 magnum. Another even more obscure caliber these days.
For the power range you're actually talking about, you would be better served with a .357 magnum. The energy numbers (10 mm vs. .357 Mag) are close enough that it's a wash (700+/- Ft lbs before factoring in cylinder gap/short barrel losses), and there's no shortage of available options. Any other magnum caliber that starts with a .4 starts at about 900 ft lbs and climbs above 1000 ft lbs quickly.
OK, let's see if we can get you a "bit of data".
Originally Posted by jsm2
Midway USA does provide muzzle velocity and kinetic energy as part of their "buy it from us" info.
Currently, they list 47 10mm ammo loads for sale. Most say "currently out of stock, no back orders". A few say "coming soon". Two loads are "currently available".
One is Glaser Silver Safety Slug Ammunition 10mm Auto 115 Grain Safety Slug Package of 6, for $9.99. These are touted for "inside your house" self defense.
Quote is "Similar to the Blue Safety Slug round, the Silver round is made from #6 shot, creating larger segments and deeper penetrating bullet with more of
a controlled energy release. Penetrates 8"-10" in lab testing."
Muzzle Velocity: 1650 fps
Muzzle Energy: 695 ft lbs
I don't think you want to "anger" a bear with bird shot. YMMV.
The second is "Doubletap Ammunition 10mm Auto 180 Grain Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point". 20 rounds for $23.99. A very reasonable hunting bullet. Would do well on bears.
Out of a Glock 29, they say the following. Don't know how it would do out of a revolver snubby. Nosler is a well regarded bullet maker for hunting.
•Muzzle Velocity: 1204 fps
•Muzzle Energy: 579 ft. lbs.
Let's do a bit of .44 Magnum comparison. They list 88 loads. Again, most say ""currently out of stock, no back orders". A few say "coming soon". Two loads available,
both Double Tap, both 20 rounds for $40.99. Double Tap is "known" for "we are the best, and quality costs". Let's look a the Barnes XPB bullet version. A quality bullet.
•Muzzle Velocity: 1625 fps **
•Muzzle Energy: 1173 ft. lbs
And now we can see how my personal "wilderness" carry revolver, the Ruger Alaskan .454 snubby stacks up. Midway lists 35 loads. Six "available", six "special order".
My "carry load" is a Winchester "Supreme" using a Nosler "Partition Gold" 260 grain bullet.
The closest Midway load currently listed is a Winchester "Supreme Elite" dual bonded bullet. 20 rounds for $42.95.
•Muzzle Velocity: 1800 fps
•Muzzle Energy: 1870 ft. lbs
Think about this. Regular "good" hunting stuff in .44 Mag has TWICE the energy of 10mm. .454 Casull regular "good" hunting stuff has THREE times the energy of 10mm.
And we haven't gotten into S&W building two "real hot revolvers" for "pistol cartridges". One to win the "fastest velocity" trophy. One to win the "most energy" trophy.
Well, your original question was you wanted a revolver.
"This needs to be able to kill hogs and bears. And I do have my mind set in 10 mm not .44 magnum."
And my answer is
"What is your logic?"
Oops, sorry. This sounds way too critical. I really am interested in why the 10mm semi-auto cartridge in a revolver idea "grabs you". Peace.
10mm is a great chambering choice for a high capacity semi-auto 'woods gun.' I have a Glock G20 that I bought for precisely that reason. But, having said that, no handgun is really a great choice for hunting hard-to-kill animals, unless you are a really dedicated handgun hunter who knows all the tricks. Mine is for backup only, or for just being in the woods when I'm not hunting. I have killed a hog with .45 ACP, but it wasn't pretty, and I don't recommend it - it basically requires a head shot to make a clean, one-shot kill on a medium sized feral hog with most handguns, unless you get a quartering shot from the rear and know enough pig anatomy to hit the heart or major artery, or have something that will penetrate through the shoulder and destroy the heart. Unlike a deer, a hog's heart is located almost directly between the shoulders, and lower down than a deer, meaning that your basic broadside kill shot for a deer is going to hit a hog in the lungs. It will kill him, eventually, but he will run off and die somewhere else, leaving you to wonder if you made a good shot.
As for 10mm in a revolver, it's a cool revolver, maybe, but not something very useful, for two reasons:
1. Those who have 10mm revolvers have reported that the recoil from firing hot 10mm loads often unseats the other bullets (within the cartridge case) in the cylinder. This is probably due to the fact that factory 10mm loads are intended for semi-autos and are not crimped tight enough to prevent this from happening in a revolver.
2. The 10mm varies in power, according to how it is loaded, but a standard 180 grain FMJ is approximately equal to a hot .357 magnum load, in it's terminal effect, and there are lots of them on the market in snub-nosed revolvers. They are not as good as .44 magnum for hunting, but would probably work OK at close range, if you could hit a vital organ. A heavier 10mm load can get near to a .44 magnum (in power) with a light bullet, but this would increase the likelihood of the crimp problem (above).
I love the 10mm, but I personally don't want one in a revolver.
Can't argue with the man whose been there and done that.
Originally Posted by Bisley
Around here, we have a LOT of javelinas, a few bears, and a few lions. And occasional "not much fun" encounters with said animals "larger than rabid foxes/skunks".
I'm happy with my choice to bring enough gun.
I think 10mm Glock would be totally adequate. But, I'm biased about my semi-autos. Glocks = kitchen appliances.
None of my semi-autos have enough stopping power for those "truly bad ass animals". Hence my Ruger SRH Alaskan for "enough gun". YMMV may (and probably will).
The 10mm is the only Glock I own, and I originally bought it because it seemed to be the only autoloader that was specifically designed around the 10mm cartridge, and was fairly available and in my price range. Also, I expected it to get some rough treatment...and who cares if a Glock gets roughed up?
Originally Posted by DanP_from_AZ
After firing a few magazines through it, I was actually impressed that a semi-auto that felt like a brick in my hand was so consistently accurate. On my second practice session, I was hitting paper plates more often than not at over 75 yards, with no hold-over. I like it....but, we don't have bears, here.
Well, don't get me wrong. The Glock, especially in 10mm, is a great tool. Especially for "the woods". And I have no problem with folks selecting a "great tool".
Originally Posted by Bisley
As an engineer (retired) trained in the "scientific method", we are supposed to believe in "function before form". But, I've always been a bit off the reservation.
Function is first, but I want my "style" too. As a close second, and very much the deciding factor once "function is fullfiled".
Cars, mistresses, guns, motorcycles, dogs, tools, garage, kids, house, wife. Putting things in this hierarchy has caused "some grief" in my life. But it's been well worth it.
I guess I'm a 'function before form' kind of guy, myself. I mostly buy 'off-the-shelf' guns that have the features I like, and mostly just adapt to the minor things I don't like, rather than modifying them extensively. If they don't test out to be something I'm willing to adapt to, I'll swap them. I do love pretty guns, and I have a couple, but I find that I am somewhat hesitant to shoot them and make them 'less pretty,' so I mostly just look at them and buy something else that I know I won't mind using.
The G20 is like a tool that is useful for a variety of jobs. It's the only gun I own that I will occasionally put away without cleaning and inspecting it first. I don't abuse it, but feel OK about neglecting it for a while, if I'm not in the mood to 'fondle' an ugly gun.
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