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  1. #1
    870ShellShucker's Avatar
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    The .357 is still the best one-shot performer for self-defense in a handgun.

    In 2011, the ammunition companies still can't duplicate the performance of a 125 Grain .357 Magnum JHP in any .40 S&W, or .45 ACP offering. The .357 is still the best one-shot performer for self-defense in a handgun. (Although the .45 ACP is a Bad Boy in its own right)

    Does anyone here disagree?

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    agreed except the 357 sig is supposed to "duplicate" the ballistics to the magnum, yet is about 200fps slower on average to the famous magnum.

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    i love ye old .357mag i have played with a few and own one which i love, i have considered getting a snubbie as well, such as a s&w for play, but i will definately own more in this caliber its so well rounded. stopping power, accuracy, conveinence, ease of finding ammo, plinker, etc... they are just too good to pass up

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    agreed except the 357 sig is supposed to "duplicate" the ballistics to the magnum, yet is about 200fps slower on average to the famous magnum.
    Well, it comes close then, but still no cigar. Although, I see factory .357 offerings from 1200fps to 1500fps, so there is a range of velocities out there. However, most companies load their 125 Grain JHP pretty hot and label it as a self-defense round. That is still considered the gold standard. The 158 Grain JHP is pretty common as well, and at 25 or 50 yards, it catches and starts to exceed the velocity of the 125 Grain load.

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    i have been thinking of getting a glock 32 in 357sig due to ballistics as its as close to a 357mag as they come in a semi-auto thats willing to send over 13 rounds downrange as fast as you can pull the trigger, so its very tempting im sure the glock will be my next pistol for carry, but in reference to your original post nothing other than a 44mag or bigger coould compare to the 357mag in stopping power, yet the 357 is the most versitile as you can comfortably carry an array of 357 caliber framed pistols where the 44 lacks by the undeniable size of the "wheel" that holds these mini-cannon rounds but for a revolver its either 357 or something thats never going to live up to it

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    The .357 magnum loaded properly may well be the "best" defense round, if all the variables fall into place. No particular caliber is worth a damn unless the shooter can put a magazine, or cylinder full on target. Even then, a caliber comparison in gel is simply an approximation of tissue density, presence of bone, point of impact, trajectory, and while it's a reasonable comparison, the ability to control one's chosen caliber, and put rounds on target is paramount. Who knows of anyone who carries only one .357 round in a cylinder, because it's a "one shot stopper" ? This debate will surface somewhere on a weekly basis, as will the fact that rounds on target are required BEFORE caliber becomes relevant.

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    870ShellShucker's Avatar
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    This debate will surface somewhere on a weekly basis
    Yes, but the point is, after all of these decades, nobody has brought to market an equivalent semi auto caliber or load that will do what the 125 Grain .357 did with one well-placed shot. The Magnums have reigned supreme for a mighty long time now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 870ShellShucker View Post
    Yes, but the point is, after all of these decades, nobody has brought to market an equivalent semi auto caliber or load that will do what the 125 Grain .357 did with one well-placed shot. The Magnums have reigned supreme for a mighty long time now.
    Please don't mis-understand.... I really like the .357. Ok, here we go.... Let it be known that the .357 Magnum is undeniably the all around, greatest, no comparison, one-shot-stopper, that has ever been fired.

    Speaking of markets... what does your in-depth, without question, market research reveal as the most often carried caliber in the United States? I don't know what it is, but I'll bet lunch that it's not a .357 Magnum.

    As I said, if the .357 Magnum is the supreme, grand poobah, nothing better, one-shot-stop cartridge, why is there more than one chamber in a .357 revolver? I have four .357 revolvers, that I've owned for many, many years, and I've carried for over 40 years... but I've never been inclined to carry one of them. There are better concealed carry calibers out there. IN MY OPINION.

    Be glad we have the option to carry what we want to... in most states.

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    Please don't mis-understand.... I really like the .357
    I see we have something in common.

    Over the past 23 years, at one time or another I've owned handguns in .45 ACP, .44 Magnum, .40 S&W, .357 Magnum, .38 Special & +P, 9x19mm, .380 Auto, .32 Long, .25 Auto, and .22 LR calibers.

    I've fired commercial hollow point loads from all of these. I only felt like I really had enough gun when shooting the .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. The 9mm option for me was only good if it was a high capacity pistol. To feel comfortable, I wanted twice the ammo in a 9mm, as in a .357 Magnum. Otherwise, why use 9mm? I still feel pretty good about a .38 Special and Hollow Points as a close quarters in-home emergency rig, but I'd much rather have the .357 Magnum.

    I felt like the .44 Magnums were impractical for me, but the ones I had all had 7.5" barrels, six-shot cylinders, and weighed a ton. Perhaps a .44 with a 3"-4" barrel, five shot cylinder, and loaded with .44 specials would totally change my mind. I regret not having experience with a smaller, lighter .44 Special rig.

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    Well, when a decent 1911 platform is designed to accept a .357 magnum, I'll buy one. I've trained with, carried in combat with, and taught with a 1911 for too many years to change now. With regard to firearms, personal preference is everything. The most efficient defensive caliber in the world is useless, if you don't carry it. Currently, I'd have to guess that the most popular carry guns are 1911's and Glocks, but that doesn't mean that everyone, or anyone, has to like either one.

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    I also loved the 1911, FWIW. Best semi-auto I ever shot. I was very impressed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 870ShellShucker View Post
    In 2011, the ammunition companies still can't duplicate the performance of a 125 Grain .357 Magnum JHP in any .40 S&W, or .45 ACP offering. The .357 is still the best one-shot performer for self-defense in a handgun. (Although the .45 ACP is a Bad Boy in its own right)

    Does anyone here disagree?
    Yeah. Me.

    1. Some people find the .357 Magnum a difficult round to control, particularly when using a snubbie. Necessary second and third shots are difficult to place quickly, accurately, and effectively.
    2. As usmcj pointed out, ballistics are meaningless unless the shooter can accurately and effectively place each and every shot. All the kinetic energy in the world becomes a futile expenditure, if the shot misses its mark.

    And if you truly believe that a 4" or 5", .44 Magnum is the right carry gun for you, then by all means have at it. They're available from S&W.
    Let us know how it works out for you, once you've gained a little real-world experience. (That is, after you've actually shot it a few times.)

    Oh, yeah: And please try to remember that Dirty Harry was a movie, and that the gun was loaded with blanks.

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    Russ is offline Banned
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    If the 357 is tops why do most police department and military not use the 357? I have read you must make the first shot count in a small concealed 357 because the recoil will knock you off Target for a followup shot. It really doesn't mean much if you can't hit the Target because the gun kicks so much due to the shooter flinching. My dad used a 22 to drop 1500 lb beef cattle. Shot placement is everything.

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    Let us know how it works out for you, once you've gained a little real-world experience. (That is, after you've actually shot it a few times.)
    Why, pray tell, do you assume that I haven't shot any of the 5 or more .357's I've owned over the years?

    It really doesn't mean much if you can't hit the Target because the gun kicks so much due to the shooter flinching.
    The average distance is 7 Yards. That's a mighty big target at 7 Yards. We're not talking about shooting coke bottles.

    If the 357 is tops why do most police department and military not use the 357?
    Because a .357 doesn't offer 15 shots without a reload.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 870ShellShucker View Post
    Why, pray tell, do you assume that I haven't shot any of the 5 or more .357's I've owned over the years?...
    I don't.
    You were writing about desiring a medium-length-barrel .44 Magnum.
    That's the gun to which I was referring, and about your experience with which I was making assumptions.
    Of course, if you're going to load a .44 Magnum pistol with .44 Special ammunition, you might as well stick to your .357 Magnums anyway.

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    870ShellShucker's Avatar
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    I don't. You were writing about desiring a medium-length-barrel .44 Magnum.
    That's the gun to which I was referring, and about your experience with which I was making assumptions.
    Of course, if you're going to load a .44 Magnum pistol with .44 Special ammunition, you might as well stick to your .357 Magnums anyway.
    OK, sorry I misunderstood what you were getting at. I remember seeing a 5 shot, short barreled .44 Special in a magazine several years back. It sure looked interesting. Like a Governor/Judge without the extended cylinder.

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    Your original post said
    Quote Originally Posted by 870ShellShucker View Post
    In 2011, the ammunition companies still can't duplicate the performance of a 125 Grain .357 Magnum JHP in any .40 S&W, or .45 ACP offering. The .357 is still the best one-shot performer for self-defense in a handgun. (Although the .45 ACP is a Bad Boy in its own right)

    Does anyone here disagree?
    OK, let's move the goal-post just a bit to be fair. You say "can't duplicate . . . in any .40 S&W offering". You are not comparing apples and oranges.

    After the FBI fiasco in Miami, the FBI went to the 10mm Auto. Designed to "match" the .357 Mag performance. And it does.
    And then the 10mm was "too much". Hence the "10mm Short", the .40 S&W was created with reduced "power" to allow agents to "shoot better".

    125 grain bullets in 10mm are "fairly rare". Most are in the 150 to 200 grain range. But Cor-Bon offers "defensive" loads close in weight for both calibers.

    Cor-Bon .357 Magnum 125 grain Barnes XPB hollowpoint. $31.99/20.
    1300 fps, 469 ft-lbs energy. At the muzzle.

    Cor-Bon 10mm Auto 135 grain jacketed hollow point. $27.19/20.
    1400 fps, 588 ft-lb energy. At the muzzle.

    And you say "The .357 is still the best one-shot performer for self-defense in a handgun."
    I'm not a Glock guy, but I'm fairly certain Glock has at least one handgun model in 10mm.
    The Glock contains quite a few more rounds than a 5/6 shot .357 Magnum revolver. Unless you have a semi-auto .357 Magnum.
    But, who cares about the number of rounds available when you have "the best one-shot performer for self-defense".

    Care to revisit your statements ?

    It is never good to put your opinions in the form of "absolutes".
    All it takes is one contrary example to refute your "argument".

    P.S.
    Doubletap has this pretty hot 10mm Auto self-defense load in the "fairly rare" 125 grain category.
    125 grain Barnes TAC-XP hollowpoint.
    1600 fps, 710 ft-lb energy. At the muzzle.

    So a single 10mm Auto shot is able to leap tall buildings at a single bound, after driving all the way through a pack of Zombies.

    All of the above is just my opinion, of course.
    And this comparison totally begs off the question of "bullet effectiveness" and all the "one-stop BS".

    Your Mileage May Vary.

  19. #18
    Russ is offline Banned
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    I am not going to dispute the ballistic of the 357. However shot placement is the most important factor and that means range time. 357 is a boat load more to practice with than 9 mm. Which I ask is going to be more effective the shooter that has the range time and can place the 9mm or the person with the 357 who can't hit the side of the barn because he couldn't afford to practice because the ammo is too costly.

  20. #19
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    Cor-Bon .357 Magnum 125 grain Barnes XPB hollowpoint. $31.99/20.
    1300 fps, 469 ft-lbs energy. At the muzzle.
    There are several 125 Grain HP rounds for the .357 which are higher in both velocity and foot-pounds of energy than the one you just cited. From the "old standard" Federal JHP at 1440fps and 575 ft-lbs, to the Hornady XTP at 1500fps and 624 ft-lbs of energy.

    Cor-Bon 10mm Auto 135 grain jacketed hollow point. $27.19/20.
    1400 fps, 588 ft-lb energy. At the muzzle.
    Doubletap has this pretty hot 10mm Auto self-defense load in the "fairly rare" 125 grain category.
    125 grain Barnes TAC-XP hollowpoint, 1600 fps, 710 ft-lb energy. At the muzzle.
    The Hornady XTP .357 Magnum at 624 ft-lbs toes the line pretty well with the 10mm.

    Numerous current handguns are offered in .357, as well as there being a huge supply of used handguns in .357. The 125 Grain ammo is plentiful, and offered by every company under the sun. There are numerous HP designs available to choose from. The .357 didn't fall out of favor with law enforcement agencies because it didn't do its job well. They simply wanted higher capacity, without having to deal with a giant revolver cylinder.

    You know, for this to be the General Revolver Area, there sure are a lot of semi-auto fans hanging out here.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 870ShellShucker View Post
    ...You know, for this to be the General Revolver Area, there sure are a lot of semi-auto fans hanging out here.
    ...And I like women, too!

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