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  1. #41
    usmcj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45Sidekick View Post
    handguns are just a way to keep a perp occupied until you can get your hands on a real gun lol, i have a mossberg 835 sawed off pump with 6 shells as my door-stop for such an occasion lol
    I have a Rem 870 handy as well... just make sure your "sawed off" shotgun still measures over 18 " closed bolt (less firing pin) / 26" overall length.... if you ever have to use it, and it's short of either measurement, you're not gonna be a happy camper.

  2. #42
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    Love the "one shot stop" stuff. I hope people don't honestly believe this garbage. Furthermore, I hope people don't TRAIN this way. Shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. If it takes one .357mag, fine, but if all I had was a .357mag, and there were need to shoot something with it, I tend to believe that it'd get more than one just for good measure.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    Shoot until the threat is no longer a threat.
    Absolutely correct......

    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    but if all I had was a .357mag, and there were need to shoot something with it, I tend to believe that it'd get more than one just for good measure.
    If the threat ceases to be a threat, and you add one more just for good measure, the local prosecutor may be less than impressed.

  4. #44
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45Sidekick View Post
    agreed except the 357 sig is supposed to "duplicate" the ballistics to the magnum, yet is about 200fps slower on average to the famous magnum.
    Also, because the size of the bullet is different they needed to beef up the hollow point area so that it would not disintegrate. So the projectile is the same weight, but not the same exact configuration.

    Even when they duplicate the velocity they don't duplicate the results.

    But from everything I've ever read, the 125 grain Federal JHP in .357 has the best record for stopping bad guys. Everything else is just trying to be "just as good as..."

    Note that the .45 military round has always been listed as a major man-stopper. (And it is.) But it was being compared with other military rounds (all of which are full military jacketed). The size of the .45 does not translate into super results once you go to JHP in .45. Though it is certainly my first or second choice for personal protection. Not as effective as the .357 but (from my experience) vastly easier to learn to shoot really well.

    And that leads to the biggest failing of the .357. In the smaller sized weapons that make good carry pieces, the .357 can require significant amounts of practice; and that practice must be on-going to keep sharp. Brief lapses in training on the .45 would have less impact than similar lapses in .357 (based on my experience only).

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post



    If the threat ceases to be a threat, and you add one more just for good measure, the local prosecutor may be less than impressed.
    You know what I mean. I run splits in the .18-.22 range on the timer. If two more rounds hit the bad guy in .5 seconds, they'll have a hard time pinning down exactly when the BG stopped becoming a threat.

  6. #46
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    Nice nice I have an old 870 myself and I cut the mossberg over legal lenght so its cool but it has a spread like crazy

  7. #47
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    Absolutely correct......



    If the threat ceases to be a threat, and you add one more just for good measure, the local prosecutor may be less than impressed.
    Just tell them that you always trained for three-shot sequences; tap-tap-tap; tap-tap-tap.

    The minimum number of rounds I would put in a bad guy is three shots (unless I missed one shot, or two, or all three).

    Two guys it is: tap, tap; tap, tap. And then head shots: tap; tap. (If required)

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packard View Post
    Just tell them that you always trained for three-shot sequences; tap-tap-tap; tap-tap-tap.

    The minimum number of rounds I would put in a bad guy is three shots (unless I missed one shot, or two, or all three).

    Two guys it is: tap, tap; tap, tap. And then head shots: tap; tap. (If required)

    I truly hope you don't have to relate that to a real prosecutor, but best of luck to you if it comes to that.

  9. #49
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    I truly hope you don't have to relate that to a real prosecutor, but best of luck to you if it comes to that.
    I'm not going to tell them anything. I'm going to call my sister-in-law (who defends all the gang-bangers with big dough) and tell her to take care of it.

    But I do train with a tap-tap; tap-tap; and then back again with two head shots; or one bad guy: tap-tap (torso), tap (head). So I would guess that is what I'd do in a real confrontation. You are supposed to shoot the way you practice; and practice the way you intend to shoot.

    "Gee, Mr. Prosecutor, I was trying to shoot the gun out of his hand. Must've been a flier that caught him between the eyes."

  10. #50
    specops is offline Junior Member
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    The only proven one shot stop is to hit the brain stem, caliber doesn't matter as long as you have the penetration. A brain shot will not do it (ask Gabby Giffords) by it's self and a center mass hit still requires either a bleed out or suffocation (oxygen starvation to the brain) which can take 6-10 seconds. If you sever the spine above the shoulders (neck shot) it will incapacitate the body and their ability to be a threat though the brain will still live on for a few seconds. Someone mentioned the Miami shootout. Manix was killed by a .357 bullet that hit his right eye socket ranged downward through his cheek into his neck and severed the spine. He had already been shot 5 times before that. Upon exiting their car, Platt took a 9mm in the upper right arm that penetrated the chest, took out the right lung but stopped short of the heart. He got off 42 rounds of .223 and 3 rounds each from 2 different .357 Mag revolvers before a hit to the chest penetrated and bruised the spine. Since he had almost a liter and a half of blood in the body cavity from the lung hit, it has always been a question as to whether he just bled out or the bruised spine stopped the fight. He took 12 hits before expiring. Unfortunate timing and bad tactics played a major part in the carnage. Platt's coolness under fire (he was an ex Army Ranger) and superior marksmanship with a .223 carbine left good men dead. FYI both Manix and Platt were drug free at the time of the shootout. Just like in hunting, it ain't the caliber, it's where you put the bullet and what it does after it gets there.

  11. #51
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    If an attacker is down and out of the fight, that is a one shot stop. A one shot stop does not necessarily require that the attacker be terminated. We are talking about self-defense. If you are perceived to have crossed the line to start executing "judgement" upon your attacker, you may well find yourself being prosecuted. Don't put yourself in a prosecutable situation, but by all means protect yourself.

    Happy to live in a "Castle Doctrine" state.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    Well, when a decent 1911 platform is designed to accept a .357 magnum, I'll buy one.
    Found one :-D
    Coonan - Welcome to Coonan!

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    If the 357 is tops why do most police department and military not use the 357? I have read you must make the first shot count in a small concealed 357 because the recoil will knock you off Target for a followup shot. It really doesn't mean much if you can't hit the Target because the gun kicks so much due to the shooter flinching. My dad used a 22 to drop 1500 lb beef cattle. Shot placement is everything.
    While civilians are not expected to get in gun fights (you'd get in trouble even if you are in the right), the police can expect to get in gun fights. A gun fight might easily require more than 6 rounds, so an automatic makes more sense. It carries more ammo and reloads much quicker than a revolver.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by spanish073187 View Post
    Interesting. I'll look closer at that..... thanks

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    Interesting. I'll look closer at that..... thanks
    Just a note: Coonan came out with this gun years ago and went bankrupt. They are re-introducing the gun. There was neve anything wrong with the weapon, but you should know the history of the manufacturer.

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