Finally!!! We completely agree....And I like women, too!
ha i just bought a ruger gp100 today in 357 mag with a 4 inch barrel for a new play toy, and after cleaning it up, it is a fun one... but also deafening i cant hear sh^^ now after about 80 rounds with no hearing protection like the dumby i am lol but its a good fun pistol
Warning: Although I have always liked music, I can no longer hear very much of it. I can still remember the exact moment when I lost all of my high-frequency hearing. All it took was one shot. Just one.
Your hearing will accept the insult of repeated loud, explosive noises, and it will recover nicely in a very little while, until you finally subject your ears to the one, final noise. That moment is unpredictable, and its occurrence is different for each individual, but it also is inevitable.
Young though you may be, you are not indestructible. You are not Superman.
Wear hearing protection, each and every time you shoot. (Yes, for .22 rimfires too.)
And while you're at it, wear eye protection too.
its kinda peaceful once the bells quit ringing huh? see? i cant even hear on here lol
When I was younger, we hardly ever had any ear plugs on when we shot. Most of us didn't even own a pair. Now, I always wear them when I am shooting targets. I don't wear them when I'm hunting, though. I fired 11 shots with a 12 Gauge while on a hunt last weekend, and it didn't ring my ears one bit. But, I was in big timber, far off the road. It seems like sound waves bounce off of houses and buildings and increase the perceived volume when I practice. (I don't live in town.)
shotguns dont usually bother me unless my girlfriend happens to have the barrel parallel to my ear lol that was concusive lol but anything bigger than a 9mm in a pistol about rocks my world lol
And back to the "load number comparison, where you keep moving the goalposts.
After your citing your "Hornady XTP .357 Magnum at 624 ft-lbs. toes the line pretty well with the 10mm" I actually see "my" 10mm hot load was "better" by quite a bit.
Doubletap has this pretty hot 10mm Auto self-defense load in the "fairly rare" 125 grain category.
125 grain Barnes TAC-XP hollowpoint.
1600 fps, 710 ft-lb energy. At the muzzle.
A tiny bit of mathematics shows "my 710" versus "your 624" has my 10mm load with 13.7821 % more energy than your "toes the line pretty well" weak sister .357 Mag load. So there. Take That.
And while we are casting stones, energy is properly expressed in lb.-ft. Not ft.-lbs. Torque is in ft.-lbs. I just normally go along with "accepted" (but incorrect) practice.
For our next pissing contest (or is it "who has the biggest d_ck?) I suggest shifting to "who's got the biggest gun and the hottest load actually strapped to their hip?"
I've skipped right over the .44 Mag. My carry revolver is a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan 2 1/2" snubby in .454 Casull.
Carry Load: Win Supreme Elite Dual Bond 260 grain JHP.
1800 fps, 1870 ft-lb.
Practice Load: Magtech 260 grain SJSP (Semi Jacketed Soft Point).
1800 fps, 1870 ft-lb. (yes, there is a reason it matches my carry load).
Can you raise me a S&W .500 ? (max. energy).
Or a S&W .460 ? (max. velocity).
Both are certainly more "manly" than my .454 Casull.
And I'd hazard a guess that any of the above three "placed to the center of mass" sternum might be "one-shot stoppers".
And possibly the next two or three folks stacked behind "the perp".
OK, enough touch-typing fun.
Any intelligent person knows the "best one-shot stop" deal is impossible to determine scientifically.
Not enough good data. Never will be. Who "bets their life" and stops after one shot "to collect valid data".
Now, I've got a few chores to do. Really, this was just all in fun while waiting for football to start. Peace.
I am VERY lucky. For years I worked around unmuffled race cars. First at drag strips next to funny cars and top fuelers. As in standing between them.
Then a lot more years around unmuffled road-race cars. There really is no "scientific reason" to account for my hearing at age 69 being "acceptable".
I wear electronic earmuffs when shooting. I like the "normal sounds are amplified, but loud is chopped" type. Actually, not "chopped out", but attenuated.
I like to wear them when hiking and "stalking" animals for photos also. Unless a wind is blowing. Then they'll drive you crazy. Time for the off switch.
My point was that you initially compared an average velocity 125 grain .357 hollow point load, to a red hot 10mm 125 grain load, showing a great disparity between the two. I was simply pointing out that the .357 could close the gap with the 10mm round you referred to, somewhat, if we compared the hottest factory loads of each. I also knew very well that a .41 magnum, .44 magnum, .460, .500, etc. would have more knock-down power than a .357; as you can see I never claimed that the .357 was the most powerful handgun in the world.I actually see "my" 10mm hot load was "better" by quite a bit.
Decades ago, a study by the FBI said that the 125 grain .357 JHP was the best, based upon real-world data at the time, and the factory offerings for the .357 have continued to get better since then.
The so called "one shot stop" theory is junk science. The theory or testing relies on a plethora of unprovable variables. Likewise this testing is outdated. The mental state, shot placement, what loading was used, what organs, and/or if the central nervous system was hit, the physical makeup of the individual, what type of clothing, etc.......must all be created equal to make this theory anywhere near legitimate. Unfortunately, if taken from real life shootings there would be no way to know if the same individual who succumbed to a .357 would not have succumbed to a 40., .45 or 9mm under the same exact set of circumstances provided they all used the same type of hollowpoint.
denner has a very good point as he is correct on how everything would have to be the same without these variables to have an accurate testing. much props on things people usually think of to create a better understanding on how a round will work under a stressful situation, but from another standpoint where i believe 870 is coming from, there should be much recognition to this round, it is extremely versitile and comes in a wide range of frames, designs, company logos, etc... i personally love a .357 for home defense as for the ballistics and stopping power, as it is undeniably a very powerful round. unless you go bigger such as a 44mag, 500, 10mm in the automatic, etc... the .357 still has a managable recoil, dont get me wrong it will definately let you know its there after sqeezing the trigger. but i believe it is and always will be a very popular round and has incredible ballistics to back it up as a 30 caliber handgun will never live up to. and i said 30 caliber HANDGUN so there is no confusion. i believe in it whole heartedly to protect me at my home but it is not what i carry as it is too bulky and i believe in having more than enought rounds at the ready to back me up(more than 6) but i believe this is what he was inplying just my 2 cents and my opinion on the matter
as in one shot stop, noones to know the best unless its a 12 guage at 5ft from target at center mast with 00 buckshot in the chamber different people, different scenerios, etc all play a factor so its something we'll never know for sure
But my, hasn't it been a robust discussion? The truth is, there are several great options available. The .40 and .45 are both awesome, the 9mm and .38 are pretty good in their own right, and the .357 hangs in there with pretty much anything. I admittedly have no experience with the 10mm, but do know personally that the .44 is a hand-canon. So much recoil, and so much time to get back on target, but what a heck of a first shot.
The .357 has all the recoil I'd want to have to deal with in a defensive situation. Unless a perp was on PCP, he'd never stand a chance.
I'm an long-winded and opinonated old "you know what". And a lot of people don't take kindly to "that".
I just deleted another too long reply on valid statistical studies and verifiable computer modeling that have been done.
And can't be done for "bullet stops". Denner has a very good take on "problems". It is even more complex than that.
I've never fired a .44 Mag, but have spent a fair amount of time with .454 Casull hot hollow-point loads in my Alaskan.
It's hell on water-filled milk jugs. A REAL BIG step up over full-power .45 Long Colt hollowpoints.
But it's not on my nightstand. That is the job of my Beretta 92FS. And it's job is to give my time to reach the Mossberg 500 eight-shot.
Use the proper tool for the proper job, and you won't skin your knuckles. Or worse.
handguns are just a way to keep a perp occupied until you can get your hands on a real gun lol, i have a mossberg 835 sawed off pump with 6 shells as my door-stop for such an occasion lol
Every country boy should have a 12 Gauge Pump, and a .357 Revolver. They just "feel" right. I appreciate other guns too, but these two should be on everyone's short list. They ought to be experienced. Thank God for the 2nd Ammendment.
On a side note, I'm having more fun with my Heritage Rough Rider 6.5" SA 22LR than I ought to be able to for the price. It has Fixed sights, but I filed down the front blade to be dead on elevation wise at 10' and 20'. At 10' it hits about 3/4" to the Left, and at 20' it hits about 1.5" to the Left. At 30', it leaves the bullseye, about 2" High and 3" to the Left. Beyond 30', it starts getting crazy. At 75', it hits about a Foot from where I aim. I still intend to try some of the CCI Shotshells that have 165 #12 Lead Pellets in them. I bought a couple of boxes of them, but I haven't put any on paper yet.