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  1. #1
    Cait43's Avatar
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    The Definitive Answer to Which is Better, the AR-15 or the AK-47....


  2. #2
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    The Really, Truly, Absolutely Definitive Answer:
    Neither one. Get a bolt rifle in .308 or .30-'06, and shoot from way beyond 300 yards; then run like heck.

  3. #3
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    It's probably a matter of the difference between "hit" and "kill."

    The US Military seems to be having trouble, hitting and killing with the .223 out past a couple of hundred yards.
    Practical, save-your-life riflery is not the same as punching holes in paper under strictly controlled conditions.

  4. #4
    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    It's probably a matter of the difference between "hit" and "kill."

    The US Military seems to be having trouble, hitting and killing with the .223 out past a couple of hundred yards.
    Practical, save-your-life riflery is not the same as punching holes in paper under strictly controlled conditions.
    Something bander seems to be an expert at. Punching holes in paper that is. A lot of theory blown hot air.

  5. #5
    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    These weapons are designed for CQC within a couple hundred yards. Sure, they may be able to reach out to "600 yards" under perfectly controlled conditions, but that isn't what these weapons were designed for. If you want consistent, effective hits at long distance, get a bolt action .308. As for which is better, does it matter? Both are effective CQC weapons in the right hands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GCBHM View Post
    These weapons are designed for CQC within a couple hundred yards. Sure, they may be able to reach out to "600 yards" under perfectly controlled conditions, but that isn't what these weapons were designed for. If you want consistent, effective hits at long distance, get a bolt action .308. As for which is better, does it matter? Both are effective CQC weapons in the right hands.
    Lesssee? What to do ? WHAT to do ?

    1. I've had a Rem 700 VSSF (Varmint Stainless Steel Fluted) in .308 since around 1992. It's actually pretty accurate. It has a "tactical mil-dot" 4-16x by 50 mm scope.
    In the daytime I often sit on my north porch with it on my lap. Waiting for zombies to pop over the ridge 350 yards to my north. It's zero'd. So far, no joy.
    Although I almost made a major mistake and popped the two Goth teenagers walking home from the local high-school. They came over the ridge and my dogs growled big-time.

    2. I'm sorry, I have to disagree. I don't think the bolt-action is really good for CQC. During my last meth-head home invasion, I only got off three rounds before being overrun.
    So about last February, after a long stay in the local hospital I got a SIG Sauer 516 Patrol Rifle (yes, the wimpy 5.56 NATO). A red-dot is co-witnessed with the iron floppers.
    (Please, do NOT start to rag on my piston gun versus direct impingment. I just WANTED a piston gun. Discussion over).
    I've got a MOLLE vest with pockets holding three extra Magpul 2nd gen's loaded with M855. Plus the one in the gun (120). All gear in the currently de rigueur (pardon my French) FDE.
    In the nighttime I often sit in my recliner. Wearing my vest, and the 516 across my lap. Waiting for those damn local meth-heads to invade again for my new 55" flat-screen. So far, no joy.

    But, I'm ready in either case.

  7. #7
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Gosh, Dan... I sure hope that the next wave of meth heads are either little girls or really wimpy dudes!
    After all, all you've got is an enlarged version of the .22LR to whack 'em with.

    I'd suggest a really effective double gun in .416 Rigby instead, except that it's so slow to reload.

  8. #8
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I'm gonna bet that no one on this thread would like to get hit by a 5.56mm delivered from an AR-15 or a 7.62x39 from an AK-47 variant. And I would also bet that a solid hit from either one of these rounds is definitely not going to make your day. Wounds from either of them are devastating and will do major tissue and bone damage.

    I have three AR's, two of which are chambered in the 5.56 round (one is a .22LR), and a Ruger Mini-30 to cover the AK round. If I were of a mind to pull one of these rifles out of my safe for serious work, it would be one of my AR's and in particular my Smith and Wesson M&P 15 Sport Carbine. But that's just me.

  9. #9
    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanP_from_AZ View Post
    Lesssee? What to do ? WHAT to do ?

    1. I've had a Rem 700 VSSF (Varmint Stainless Steel Fluted) in .308 since around 1992. It's actually pretty accurate. It has a "tactical mil-dot" 4-16x by 50 mm scope.
    In the daytime I often sit on my north porch with it on my lap. Waiting for zombies to pop over the ridge 350 yards to my north. It's zero'd. So far, no joy.
    Although I almost made a major mistake and popped the two Goth teenagers walking home from the local high-school. They came over the ridge and my dogs growled big-time.

    2. I'm sorry, I have to disagree. I don't think the bolt-action is really good for CQC. During my last meth-head home invasion, I only got off three rounds before being overrun.
    So about last February, after a long stay in the local hospital I got a SIG Sauer 516 Patrol Rifle (yes, the wimpy 5.56 NATO). A red-dot is co-witnessed with the iron floppers.
    (Please, do NOT start to rag on my piston gun versus direct impingment. I just WANTED a piston gun. Discussion over).
    I've got a MOLLE vest with pockets holding three extra Magpul 2nd gen's loaded with M855. Plus the one in the gun (120). All gear in the currently de rigueur (pardon my French) FDE.
    In the nighttime I often sit in my recliner. Wearing my vest, and the 516 across my lap. Waiting for those damn local meth-heads to invade again for my new 55" flat-screen. So far, no joy.

    But, I'm ready in either case.
    I never said the bolt action was good for CQC. I said the AR/AK was designed for that. I also said if you want a long range rifle, get a .308. ???

  10. #10
    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I'm gonna bet that no one on this thread would like to get hit by a 5.56mm delivered from an AR-15 or a 7.62x39 from an AK-47 variant. And I would also bet that a solid hit from either one of these rounds is definitely not going to make your day. Wounds from either of them are devastating and will do major tissue and bone damage.

    I have three AR's, two of which are chambered in the 5.56 round (one is a .22LR), and a Ruger Mini-30 to cover the AK round. If I were of a mind to pull one of these rifles out of my safe for serious work, it would be one of my AR's and in particular my Smith and Wesson M&P 15 Sport Carbine. But that's just me.
    Yeah, something seems amiss. I'm not sure where it got off track, but I agree, no one that I'm aware of wants to get hit with any of the mentioned weapons. I too like my M&P sport. It's a dandy! I thought we were talking about the difference btwn a cqc weapon vs a long range weapon, but maybe I misunderstood.

  11. #11
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCBHM View Post
    Yeah, something seems amiss. I'm not sure where it got off track, but I agree, no one that I'm aware of wants to get hit with any of the mentioned weapons. I too like my M&P sport. It's a dandy! I thought we were talking about the difference btwn a cqc weapon vs a long range weapon, but maybe I misunderstood.
    The OP's original post was about an article comparing the AR and the AK platforms. It was a good article but like any such article, it is going to contain the biases and opinions of the writer. That's fine with me because within decent articles such as these, one can usually find some valuable information. And it never hurts to read the opinions of others, anyway.... which is really why we're all here.

  12. #12
    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    The OP's original post was about an article comparing the AR and the AK platforms. It was a good article but like any such article, it is going to contain the biases and opinions of the writer. That's fine with me because within decent articles such as these, one can usually find some valuable information. And it never hurts to read the opinions of others, anyway.... which is really why we're all here.
    Agreed. The age old "which is better" fight will never end. I think I posted on what another poster said rather than the actual basis of the article, but I think both are fine combat weapons in the hands of a trained warrior, per se. If I'm in combat I just want something that shoots and is accurate. While the AR is a more "accurate" weapon than the AK, no one can deny the proven capablility of the AK.

  13. #13
    Scorpion8's Avatar
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    There will never be a definitive answer, because every engagement situation is different. I don't expect to engage in sniper duels with an AK especially inside my house, but as long as minute-of-beer-can is okay, then it's a great weapon especially unmaintained and in the mud.

  14. #14
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Oh, I dunno...
    The hallway in our house is so long that I'd need a set of wind flags, and to account for coriolis forces, if I wanted to make an accurate shot.

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    VAMarine's Avatar
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    In the right configuration I'd take an AR anu day of the week.

    The big issue I have with these articles is that "AR15" is about as generic a term as you can get its like saying "Chevy"

    An M16A2 is a horrible close quarters gun but a mighty nice target rifle. The Colt Commando and later the M4 were grrat close quarters guns but not great target guns etc.

    But give me a mix of the two, say an 18" bbl with collapsible stock and some optics and I'll take it.

    What I'd really like is a 10.5" SBR with a Noveske flaming pig.

  16. #16
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    I have owned all kinds of rifles. I enjoy shooting ARs/AKs, Garands, Enfields, Mausers, etc. If it were down to one, I would take my British L1A1. Some find it heavy, but I've been shooting it so long, I hardly notice anymore. Hard hitting, accurate, and reliable. I will admit to being partial to larger calibers. I got out of the AR15, but the 6.8spc lured me back in.

  17. #17
    Smitty79's Avatar
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    I prefer the AR. I can easily shoot it prone. I can't do that with an AK.

  18. #18
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    Well, I know Steve M1911A1 knows, but for some of you others I may have to modify my Modus Operandi and use the
    following tags. Which are mandatory for commenting in quite a few websites where a occasional poster's IQ or English
    comprehension may be in question.

    /sarc on .................................. sarc off/
    /irony on ................................ irony off/
    /general fun BS on ....... general fun BS off/

    The reader is encouraged to add any further categories which may tickle their fancy.

  19. #19
    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanP_from_AZ View Post
    Well, I know Steve M1911A1 knows, but for some of you others I may have to modify my Modus Operandi and use the
    following tags. Which are mandatory for commenting in quite a few websites where a occasional poster's IQ or English
    comprehension may be in question.

    /sarc on .................................. sarc off/
    /irony on ................................ irony off/
    /general fun BS on ....... general fun BS off/

    The reader is encouraged to add any further categories which may tickle their fancy.
    Right. Well, for starters, your sentence structure is wrong. Perhaps you meant to say, "Well I know that Steve M1911A1 knows, but for some of you others I may have to modify my modus operandi and use the following tags, which are mandatory for commenting on quite a few websites where an occasional poster's IQ, or English comprehension, may be in question"?

    If you're going to insult one's IQ or comprehension of the English language, it would be best to be grammatically correct. :-/

  20. #20
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    My LGS has a AR style lower with both 5.56 and 7.62x39 uppers that should settle the debate. As for me, I want a belt fed .338 Lapua. I leave with s/off

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