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  1. #1
    Tuefelhunden is offline Member
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    Kel-Tec's RFB Bullpup

    Has anyone had any experience with these yet? Chambered for 308 in a fully ambidexterous bull pup design, 18" barrel and takes FAL magazines. MSRP is $1880 but dealer in the $1400 to $1500 range. Can't afford it right now but got to admit I want it. Any thoughts for or against?

  2. #2
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    The gun snob in me says that I don't think I would ever pay that kind of money for anything from Kel-Tec. A DPMS .308 is priced less.

    However the concept is damn cool and if you're going for the bulpup aspect of the package, I'm pretty sure it's in a class by itself, I've seen a couple bull pup .308s but IIRC they've all been bolt guns.

    If you get one, double up on your ear protection, muffs over plugs as that puppy is going to bark. I'd probably opt for the longer barrel just to keep the muzzle her away from my ears.

    I think with a good optic that would be a nice package for an urban combat rifle. I'm just not that crazy about Kel-Tec but Kudos to them using readily available mags (unlike FN with their FNAR) for the gun.

    I wonder how it handles in the prone...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #3
    Tuefelhunden is offline Member
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    Thanks VAMarine. And please move this post if necessary. Just realized I posted it in the photos section. Doh! My reaction was similar to yours. Kel-tec? The SU-16, especially in the C configuration, seems to get a lot of positive reviews so go figure. I had gotten some good advice about the DPMS and FAL from Zhurdan, yourself and others previously and those are still on my radar as instead of or in addition to options.

    I have never had the opportunity to try a bullpup type before and appreciate the tips/warnings. Barrel chamber and action is right by the ear. Defiantely something to consider. Price to be paid for shoe horning an 18" barrel in such a small OAL. Rumor has it that the action is some how similar to the FAL but I can't confirm that. Saw it tested (YouTube) with a scope and supressor. Wow!

  4. #4
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Is this the one which ejects its empties out of the front of a tube above the barrel?

  5. #5
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Is this the one which ejects its empties out of the front of a tube above the barrel?
    Yes.

    INTRODUCTION
    RFB stands for Rifle, Forward-ejecting Bullpup. Why forward-ejecting? Because it allows the RFB to be the first truly ambidextrous 7.62 NATO Bullpup ever developed. The patented, dual-extractor system maintains control of the case from the moment it leaves the magazine and upon firing, pulls the fired case from the chamber and lifts them to push them into an ejection chute above the barrel, where they exit.

  6. #6
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Thought so.
    Speak to me about clearing jams within the extraction-ejection path:
    • Dirt, or even mud, within the ejection tube
    • A jam at the point of extraction
    • A misfeed jam

    (One reason why I ask is my limited experience with the AUG, which had a tiny ejection port at the side, right at its feed point. Although it didn't jam or misfeed much, clearing some AUG jams was quite difficult. It would almost be necessary, in one or two posited scenarios, to field-strip the gun!)

  7. #7
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Thought so.
    Speak to me about clearing jams within the extraction-ejection path:
    Dirt, or even mud, within the ejection tube
    A jam at the point of extraction
    A misfeed jam

    (One reason why I ask is my limited experience with the AUG, which had a tiny ejection port at the side, right at its feed point. Although it didn't jam or misfeed much, clearing some AUG jams was quite difficult. It would almost be necessary, in one or two posited scenarios, to field-strip the gun!)
    Lock bolt to rear, invert firearm, shake like hell??

    Some damn good questions there.

  8. #8
    onebigelf is offline Junior Member
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    You might also look at the RRA LAR-8 which runs about $1000 and uses FN-FAL magazines. I've seen little but positive reports. Occasionally it seems to have issues with accepting some surplus mags, but that's just a matter of making sure you get ones that fit. Seems the mag well is a bit tight and some mags which are slightly on the large side or slightly deformed from years of use/abuse don't fit or don't fit without a little "adjusting".

    John

  9. #9
    Tuefelhunden is offline Member
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    Good point Steve. Sounds like it stacks them up end to to end in a row in the ejection tube up to 3 at a time if I recall correctly. With each new round fired another empty is dumped out the front but not all of them at once. Tipping the barrel downward would probably drop free the rest. If it works it is an interesting concept ejecting out the business end. If it did foul up I agree it does not look or sound like it would be a simple matter to clear it.

    I would hope there is is enough tolerance in there to prevent fouling in that ejection tube that could lock an empty in place causing a rather nasty log jam and stoppage. Too much ID tolerance and it runs the risk of a double feed. Tricky stuff. Next gun show I may have to go and see if I can get a closer look at one.

    Appreciate the input guys.

  10. #10
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    I've got an FN FS2000 that ejects in a similar fashion. I've shot it quite a bit, pretty hard and have yet to have any issues. The ejection tube is fairly loose, but not loose enough for brass to stack up over each other. Once even tried shooting it at about 45 degrees to vertical into a giant tree (don't worry, the trees been dead for many years) to see if the upward angle would cause problems. The ejection tube has a little one way clip that prevents the rounds from falling back into the action during cycling. Not sure the Keltec has that, but I'd assume they'd have thought of it. Can anyone confirm this? I've fired the 2000 upside down and sideways with no ill effects.

    I'm guessing the Keltec is similar in operation. Anyone got one yet?

  11. #11
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    It appears it is. Here's a link to a page with a video of a cutaway version showing the ejection process.

    Kel Tec

  12. #12
    Tuefelhunden is offline Member
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    Thanks Zhurdan. Good stuff! Looks like a jam would be a pain but the design and your experience seems to indicate that that is pretty unlikely to happen. I think one of these would fit in nicely with your brace of FAL's.

  13. #13
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuefelhunden View Post
    ...With each new round fired another empty is dumped out the front but not all of them at once. Tipping the barrel downward would probably drop free the rest...If it did foul up I agree it does not look or sound like it would be a simple matter to clear it...I would hope there is is enough tolerance in there to prevent fouling in that ejection tube that could lock an empty in place causing a rather nasty log jam and stoppage. Too much ID tolerance and it runs the risk of a double feed. Tricky stuff...
    ...Also investigate the operator's access to its works.
    If there's any kind of feeding jam, do you have to remove the magazine and get at the innards via the magazine well? That's both slow and awkward, and probably requires a tool for prying.
    Or do you have to half-separate an upper receiver from a lower, and pull the bolt out? That's not only slow and awkward, but dangerous in a fire-fight as well.

    Just to be open and aboveboard: My ideal semi-auto long arms are the Garand (and its clones—e.g., the Ruger) and the SKS, because all their clearances can be done from outside and through a huge, gaping hole.
    There is no gun in which a jam "is pretty unlikely to happen." Remember Mr. Murphy's law.

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