It's not .308, but have you looked at the Ruger Mini14 or 30?
I need some advice on a good all round tactical battle rifle beyond the M16/M4 variety. I have little need for dangling accessories off of it beyond the ability to add a scope or red dot at some point. My experience with combat rifles does not extend much past the military derivatives, a couple of Bushmasters I used to own and the .223/5.56 round. I would like to get into a 308 and have briefly checked out the Springfield M1 Scout and DS Arms FAL. Both seemed nice. AK47 has some merit as well but I know little about them or rather which are good and which to avoid. I have heard the Vector name favorably mentioned a few times in regards to AK's but seem hard to find. A freind has 3 HK 91's one of which is all mine if I ever want to part with $1800+. Very tempting but I have grown accustomed to my wife and would rather keep her.
So what does the board think is a good all round choice without going crazy on cost? So far from what I have held in my greedy little mitts the SA Scout at $1550.00 rings my bell but I have not fired it or anything beyond the M4 types. In a 5.56 the Sig 556 and Rugers new offering appeal to me but I'd really like to get into a larger round with the 308 making the most sense to me. Any opinions would be appreciated.
It's not .308, but have you looked at the Ruger Mini14 or 30?
There are plenty of fine ARs in the .308 category, the M1A is a nice rifle, but for me the AR just handles better. I had a M1A SOCOMII that I converted to a SOCOM16 and I just wasn't happy with it. The Scout would probably have been a better option as I often wonder what the extra 2" of barrel would have done for it.
Sure people go crazy with the rail mounted tactical combat spork etc, but that doesn't mean that YOU have to do the same. I plan on making some mild enhancements to my ARs, but nothing past a stock that will offer better spot weld, an improved charging handle, and an optic/mount combo of my choosing. No quad rail, no laser, no three point sling, no light, no bi pod---unless I actually plan on doing any varmint hunting.
This is a heck of a .308 rifle with a $1300 MSRP, and no tact-cool extravagances past the flat top which you would want for the mounting of optics.
Thanks fellas. In .223 the Mini 14 would be a good option for sure dosborn. Never shot one but they are economical relatively speaking with a good track record.
VAMarine I do like that rifle you linked to. About what I'm looking for if I decide to stick with the AR style that I am familiar with. Everything I'd need and none of the superfulous stuff I don't. I take it you have ran some .308 chambered AR's with good reliability and success then? I guess my only reservation/ reluctance is a possibly unfounded sense that better operating systems are now available than the AR gas operated one.
Too bad you didn't care for your M1A SOCOM. I have fondled them a time or two as well and they seemed disproportinately heavy given their shortened size. Conversely that Scout I checked out, while no light weight, seemed very well balanced and reasonably weighted with all polymer furniture and a flat top mounting rail on the the fore end top only. Go figure but it would be fun to run one some time and find out. I still can't believe in 4.5 year USMC service I never once got to shoot an M1A. We had them and used them rarely as knock around rifles for drill of all things. Shameful.
...Another viable option is the FNAR, one of my coworkers has one and it's pretty nice set up. His brother has an Rock River AR10 and just upgraded to a .338 Lapua. The FNAR is a nice handling piece, not too heavy, not too much recoil, the only thing I don't like is the proprietary magazines that are quite pricey and there's no easy way to mount a front iron sight.
To be continued, I'm going to bed.
Lots of AR based brands in about any caliber you want.
OK, back to the AR10. Proprietary magazines suck. If I recall correctly, you can convert M1A mags to be used in an Armalite AR10, but the same does not apply to the Rock River AR10s, I might be wrong on that though, so please double check on your own.
I'd probably buy a DPMS as they are compatible with the PMAG 7.62X51 magazines which cost $20.00.
If you go the DPMS route, CALL their customer service and ask them about their chambers, they are now listing both the 7.62X51 chamber AND the .308 chamber, their FAQ on the website does not reflect this. Generally speaking, you can fire 7.62X51 in a .308 chamber, but you shouldn't fire .308 in a 7.62X51 chamber.
If you don't mind camo you can also check out the Remington R25, but I'd probably go the DPMS route provided I could get something like this (as you want a "plain Jane") with a .308 chamber if their 7.62X51 chambers aren't going to handle .308.
If the 6.8SPC would catch on a little more, that would probably be my caliber of choice, those .308 mags get heavy and the gun is not that easy to tote around either.
For sheer reliability - just get a crummy Romy AK.
Load it and bury it naked in your backyard. Not you, the gun.
Dig it up - clear the barrel - chamber a round - probably all 30 go downrange no problem.
Not glamorous - pure rat. No one envies it.
I have the costly LWRC M6A2 in 6.8SPC and what a sweet gun. I've even began reloading the 6.8 and there are quite a few ammo choices available reasonably at
Silver State Armory Of course not as cheap as bulk 5.56 but for what it is still cheap.
My idea of a tactical battle rifle is a Springfield '03A3 with stock iron sights, a scope added in front of the receiver so it'll still clip-load, and a second magazine welded onto the bottom of the first, so it'll take 10 rounds. Oh, yes, and some means of attaching a bipod and a sling.
But you didn't want to read that, did you?
Years ago, my ex-wife and I visited her aged relative who lived in Haifa, Israel. He told me that, even in his old age, he belonged to some sort of Home Guard formation. His assignment was to help protect his neighborhood, a strategically important hill.
I asked him what weapons he had been issued. He reached into his bedroom closet and brought out his very own tactical battle rifle: a 1903 (not A3) Springfield and one five-round clip. And a bayonet.
He and I got along very well indeed.
Thanks all. Lot of good info VAMarine. I appreciate it. Great point about the propriatary magazines. Been through that enough with handguns I should of thought of that. When I finally get something I'll post it up.
Good story and point Steve M1911A1 - It's more about the man behind the rifle than the rifle. Might not be my first choice given modern day options but I'd have no problem rolling with the Springfield.
If you want one in .308, then for me, there's only one answer. F A L !
I've got a couple and they are some of the finest rifles I own.
2 pics of the Para 16" FAL
Full size SA58 FAL
Nothing quite like 20 rounds on tap of .308 goodness.
They Para is relatively new. I've got around 800 rounds thru it, but the bottom one has over 4000 rounds thru it with very few (less than .33%) issues. I think it needs a new recoil spring. I've owned it for over 8 years and it is still one of the funnest guns I shoot, even if it gets a little spendy to shoot it as often as I'd like.
Nice zhurdan. Great pics. I presume that DSA Arms is the way to go with the FAL or no?
I did. You can get some good FAL's built and they're generally cheaper than DSA's, but with the limited availability locally, I opted for a tried and true brand with good customer service. (I've ordered lots of stuff from them directly and always have gotten great customer service)
FALfiles.com is probably the best place to get info on build rifles. Just get as much info off the gun as possible as there can be some really weird Frankenrifles out there with many different parts.
See now you guys got me thinking I need more than just one new rifle. Now I think I need 3 to 4. I have started down a perilous path as if my interest in handguns wasn't bad enough. Meh, what I lack in finances I make up for in good taste and the company I keep. Cheers and again thanks for all the sage advice.
Nothing wrong with having a few shootin' sticks to fit every fancy.
Remember: You can't carry more than one at a time.
Pick one, stick with it, and get really good at using it.
"Beware of the man with only one rifle: he may know how to use it."
True enough Steve, but guns last a lifetime. In my short life so far, I've become proficient with several platforms. The latest of which is the AR15 (work in process), and when I say proficient, I don't mean shooting pop cans on a Sunday afternoon.
That being said, your advice is indeed worthy of heeding.