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  1. #1
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    Talking HD weapon advice!!

    So, I live in not the greatest neighborhood, ie gangbangers running around with guns at the age of 14, people threatening people with AK's... It is just me and my mom there now, so this summer I want to get a shotgun for HD. I've been reading up here and it seems like everyone says a shotgun is better for HD than say an AR... So I was wondering what shotgun you guys would suggest... I don't have experience with them really, so any advice would be great...

    I am looking at the Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip and foldable buttstock... It seems like people are saying slugs for HD rounds as well, is this true? Just trying to get as much info as possible before actually going to check them out... I know this is a lot, and I appreciate the responses in advance. If there is already a thread a link would be much appreciated!

  2. #2
    rfawcs's Avatar
    rfawcs is offline Supporting Member
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    The Mossberg 500 pump-action shotgun is an excellent choice for a home defense firearm. I think you'll find the regular stock much more comfortable to shoot than either the pistol grip or the folding stock, and it's still not a problem to maneuver indoors. Try to get to a gunshop or gunshow to handle one and see how it fits your body.

    The standard 6-shot capacity, 18-inch barrel model would be fine for your needs; they make 8- and 9-shot models if you're so inclined.

    Don't use any load smaller than Number 4 buckshot for self defense purposes. Slugs aren't necessary, and the No. 4 shot spread from an 18-inch barrel at indoor room ranges is negligable, so you still have to aim.

    Prefectly serviceable used shotguns (think police trade-ins) are available at reasonable prices, probably less than $250.

  3. #3
    johnr is offline Member
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    while the mosberg is an attractive weapon, i am curious about the allure of the pump action.

    i am fairly new to handguns, rifles and shotguns, my expertise is overwhelmed by my nievete. i have shot skeet, 5-stand, and friendly competitive clays, the pump shot gun would not be my choice of armorment.

    is the attraction due to the percieved or fantasy of addressing someone in the night with the sounds of a 12 gage being racked into the chamber? my worst nightmares are of getting within short chain distance of a drooling doberman, in attack mode, trained to be silent, no barking or growling. is the same attraction to automatics the same? stopping the BG, with the sound of racking a hot round into the chamber?

    1911s cocked and locked, automatic shotgun with a round in the chamber, saftey on, full stealth mode, ninja training at its finest.

    but seriously, back to the original question. What makes the pump action 12 ga a good HD weapon?

    JOhn

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfawcs View Post
    The Mossberg 500 pump-action shotgun is an excellent choice for a home defense firearm. I think you'll find the regular stock much more comfortable to shoot than either the pistol grip or the folding stock, and it's still not a problem to maneuver indoors. Try to get to a gunshop or gunshow to handle one and see how it fits your body.

    The standard 6-shot capacity, 18-inch barrel model would be fine for your needs; they make 8- and 9-shot models if you're so inclined.

    Don't use any load smaller than Number 4 buckshot for self defense purposes. Slugs aren't necessary, and the No. 4 shot spread from an 18-inch barrel at indoor room ranges is negligable, so you still have to aim.

    Prefectly serviceable used shotguns (think police trade-ins) are available at reasonable prices, probably less than $250.
    Thanks a lot! I will keep all this in mind and try to find somewhere to hold on to one... I am 5'11" and roughly 210, so I am not sure how it will feel...


    Regarding the question, I have just read that the mossberg 500 is a nice weapon for HD, I'm not sure what other type of shotgun I would get if it wasn't a pump action... It just seems the simplest at least in my mind?? I am sure someone else has an actual answer though, and as far as the automatic over the revolver, that is just a preference thing, plus weight, round capacity, and function play into that... But most people on here are a fan of autos and revolvers from what I can tell.

  5. #5
    Bisley's Avatar
    Bisley is online now Senior Member
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    A pump shotgun is a good choice for self-defense, but if you live in town, slugs might not be the best choice, due to their ability to penetrate walls. A 12 gauge slug has a huge amount of momentum and will shoot through bad guys and keep on going through most walls.

    I bought a 20 gauge Remington 870 Express (~$325) with the extended magazine and 18-1/2" barrel for my wife's HD gun. Personally, I prefer a full length stock, because every shot needs to be carefully aimed, anyway, especially at likely self-defense ranges. Don't buy into the movie depictions where you just point in the general direction and shoot. At indoor distances, the shot pattern is very small and you need to aim it almost as accurately as you would if you were firing a single projectile, through a rifle or pistol. Actually, I have put a rifled barrel with rear sight on mine, and do load with Sabot slugs, but I live out in the country, where over penetration is not an issue.

    I prefer pump over semi-auto for the simple reason that I like to keep an empty chamber for a self-defense shotgun. I don't do this with a handgun, but I am more comfortable with it in a home-defense shotgun, because it seems slightly easier for my wife to handle it safely, since she will not practice.

  6. #6
    Frank45's Avatar
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    hD shotgun

    The shotgun is a very good hd weapon and indeed hearing a 12 ga. being racked is bone chilling.
    You can pick up a nice I believe it"s a Fox 410 pump shotgun that is excellent for hd weapon. It's lighter and smaller for ease of manuverability, and at 20' or so it will put a 2" plus hole in a perp that is not too easy to repair.
    I myself relay on my 2 rotwiellers to at least wake me so I can arm myself. I also have strobes setup for
    intruders that I can activate automatically upon entering my home without an invite. The strobes will incompacitate anyone who comes into view of them, they are extremely helpful, for setting up any move you care to take. As far a shotgun, a pump is a very good choice, perferably a pump with double slide rails on the action, they dont bend like the single slide rails can, you're taking a chance with a auto loader, no matter if its a pistol, shotgun or rifle. Take jamming out of the equation. Smith & Wesson is making high capacity wheel guns now 7 and 8 shots, I will be getting one as soon as my paperwork comes in. There is many good hd shotguns out there. Go to Gun Brokers click on shotgun on their home page, then put your search in for pump shotguns. There is a nice array to choose from, find one or two you like then go to the manufacteres web site and you can go to any search engine for reviews on your choice.

  7. #7
    rfawcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnr View Post
    while the mosberg is an attractive weapon, i am curious about the allure of the pump action.

    i am fairly new to handguns, rifles and shotguns, my expertise is overwhelmed by my nievete. i have shot skeet, 5-stand, and friendly competitive clays, the pump shot gun would not be my choice of armorment.

    is the attraction due to the percieved or fantasy of addressing someone in the night with the sounds of a 12 gage being racked into the chamber? my worst nightmares are of getting within short chain distance of a drooling doberman, in attack mode, trained to be silent, no barking or growling. is the same attraction to automatics the same? stopping the BG, with the sound of racking a hot round into the chamber?

    1911s cocked and locked, automatic shotgun with a round in the chamber, saftey on, full stealth mode, ninja training at its finest.

    but seriously, back to the original question. What makes the pump action 12 ga a good HD weapon?

    JOhn
    Personal preference is the determining factor in this choice; one size does not fit all. For example, (my opinion), while a pump-action could be used for trap or skeet, it might not be the best choice. I believe nine 30-caliber, 00-buckshot pellets (one shell) heading downrange would have more of an effect on soft-tissue that one pistol bullet. It's also easier to find an 18-inch barrel pump-action shotgun without having to get out the hacksaw.

    I have been told that a pump-action shotgun has less of a chance of jamming compared to a semi-auto shotgun. Never having owned a semi-auto shotgun, I have no experience for comparison. I can say I've never had a jam or misfeed with my pump-action. Your milage may vary.

    Also be aware that regardless of firearm choice, if you fire indoors without hearing protection, you'll be (at least) temprarily deaf. That's why my primary self-defense choice is a suppressed Beretta 92FS with Crimson Trace grips. They do make shotgun suppressors, but they are long and heavy. Hopefully, I'll never have to find out if it was worth the expense.

    I know of no one at the range or in the field who has lost control of their body functions upon hearing a pump-action shotgun cycled.

    A barking dog, regardless of size, may be the best defense of all.

  8. #8
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    the us navy utilizes the m500 shotgun, and I must admit beforehand it and the Remington 870 are the extent of my shotgun knowledge, I have no experience outside of these two makes and models

    the 500 is an excellent for it's price. It is easy to maintain, easy to handle, will ALWAYS: feed, chamber, lock, fire, unlock, extract, eject, and cock so long as you maintain the weapon, put it together properly, and FUNCTION test it to make sure it is put together properly.

    they last for quite a long time, and are chambered for 2 3/4" 3" and 3 and 1/4" shells, making for a wide selection of ammunition, if it's 12 gauge than it can more than likely be cycled through your weapon.

    it is a 12 ga however and does have quite a bit of kick to it, I've seen quite a bit of bruising at the gun range with this weapon and have experienced a little myself (it was a long day) so make sure you take the time to get used to and familiar with the weapon at the range.

    it's said that in high stress situations people revert to their latest quality of training, and if you've had none than you might as well just run. nothing could be worse than you forgetting to press the action lock lever to rack and load a shell and you stand there life or death frustrated with why you can't cock the weapon with what turns out to be a relatively light weight bat, because that's all a weapon you can't operate or that has no ammo is, a fancy bat.

    if your looking in to the 870 at all it is generally regarded as far superior to the m500 and cost a bit more for it.

    professionally I think it's just a tad more simple in it's operations (simple is GOOD) but not so much so that it makes the m500 look like a maze of insanity. if you understand one you can figure out the other. they both come in many different shapes forms and mag tube/barrel sizes. I recommend staying away from pistol grip shot guns, I've seen people jack up their wrists when firing from the hip with them. a longer barrel not to good in shorter spaces.

  9. #9
    deputy125 is offline Junior Member
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    i prefer shotguns. Personally, i pass on the pistol grip, folding stock stuff. its main advantage to me is storage if that is of primary concern. Their main disadvantage is accuracy and control (practice, practice with what-ever you choose) I say keep her basic and simple with a standard stock, slick, and clutter free. #4 buck low recoil rounds are my choice for in the home.

    Without getting into any arguments, in general, a shoulder fired weapon is going to be more accurate and controlable than a handgun. You can indeed still miss with a shotgun, they still require aiming so don't fall into the myth of "can't miss". But a buck shot pattern is still a bit more forgiving than a single projectile round........avoid the slugs for general house usage.

    Stopping power and hits are the goal. within its limitations, a shotgun can be a superior weapon over a handgun or rifle.

    I've depended on remington 870's for years. Ithaca is another favorite. Tools of the trade. I pass on mossbergs for SD but that is my decision based on the lower end 500 series. i have not tried the 590 series.

    As far as action choice, that's a personal issue. From single shot to sxs to pumps, etc, etc. It can be a matter of what you got, what you can afford, or what works for everybody in the home.

    There is ALWAYS something better out there.........but we sometimes have to make do with what we got or within our limitations be it personal, financial, or physical. That does not make it wrong, its just the way it is.

    i use an 870. my wife has a 20 ga h&r single. My daughter has a 20 ga rem 1100 ( my shootist!!!!), my son has a 12 ga h&r single. None of it is state of the art, but it works for us.

  10. #10
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    Thanks guys a lot of good info here, and a lot to consider... I appreciate it a lot. I by no means want to be movie star running around with a shotgun, I just get worried about some BG breaking in in the night and not being able to protect my mom since it's just her and I now... I will look into everything and hopefully get something that will do the job and I will like as well... And as far as practicing with the shotgun, do you guys just take it to the normal range and practice there? I know the range by my house sells shot guns so I will probably make a visit there sometime soon and try to handle a few.

    Thanks again everyone!!

    I looked on gunbroker and is a Charles Daly tactical a good shotgun? It is 12 ga, here is the link to it. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=159961716
    I ask because the price seems good to me. And it looks like what I would be looking for.

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  12. #12
    deputy125 is offline Junior Member
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    range time is great..........

    try a box of "00" and 4 buck. The "low recoil" ammo does make it a bit more tollerable on the shoulder.

    purchase several large targets such as the B-27 or large "bad guy" targets. Try one round at 5 yards.......then try:
    one round at 10
    one round at 15
    one at 25 yards.

    you will see for yourself how the pattern starts to spread and why aiming is still crucial........awful hard to do with just a Pistol grip.

    Compare these distances to your home and the distance you may use the weapon........across a bedroom, living room, hall way, back yard. Its nice to know......

    also, in my experience, patterns tend to fly high.......at 15 yards and out, a "belly button" aim on the target might be best.

    also, the charles daley line i believe has been discontinued and the importer went belly up. Parts and service might be a problem. don't know much about this shotgun.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the tips, this is a great idea, but unfortunately the range by my house's rules state that when shooting a rifle or shotgun the target must be at the 25 yd mark. Good thing I have friends in the country!

  14. #14
    Jiu-jitsu fighter is offline Junior Member
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    I agree with the shotgun over a pistol. I am a very good shot with my M&P. But I would always pick up a shotgun first. Saying it isnt one of the long hunting versions. I always choose the double barrel side by side over a pump. Yes there are less shots. But less to go wrong with it. Plus with practice you can reload one of these babies quick.

    From the research I have done, I have read that the vast majority of the time. If the defender fires before the intruder even in a miss they will flee. If there are more than one by the time you pull the trigger the rest will flee leaving the wounded there. If I do need more than two shots and dont have time to reload I can always grab my .40.

    Now I know it is all personal preference. And since I have sold all my guns and just now starting to build my armory back up (right now only have a M&P .40c) I will pick up a double barrel 12 gauge. Then either a nice hunting rifle in a .308 or some kind of bullpup or assualt rifle. Then a pump shotgun.

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