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  1. #21
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    Put down SWAT magazine and Boston T. Party and pick up a copy of Cooper's The Art of a Rifle for a primer on real-world use of rifles.
    OK, but I'll be dammed if I'm giving up my Mall Ninja Quarterly! There's an article in there on choosing the proper night vision for evening neighborhood patrols that I haven't read yet.

  2. #22
    JustRick's Avatar
    JustRick is offline Member
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    From the Gun Show

    Thanks again for the advice.

    I haven't bought a new rifle yet, but I think I have my criteria cleared up a little.

    1. Something my wife will enjoy shooting. The leaves out things like M1 Garands and bolt-action .338s.

    2. Heavier round than a .22LR, but doesn't violate #1.

    3. The use of this will be 99.999% shooting for fun and .001% for defense. Therefore, I want pretty cheap ammo, and a gun that isn't more than $1,000 or so. Prefer $500.

    4. Based on realistic expectations, and the heavily wooded area I live in, I really can't see a need for a long-range rifle. Something that is accurate from 100-200 yards should be good enough.

    5. I'm not a mall ninja or a warrior-in-my-own-mind. I don't care if it's an EBR or not. Either way is good.

    6. Prefer something reasonably light and handy.

    I gave these criteria to one of my favorite dealers who is a regular at the WAC shows. He recommended looking at:

    AK-47 (he had two or three different makes)

    vz. 58 ($875 ish)

    Smith and Wesson M&P15R AR-15-style rifle in 5.45x39 (really cheap ammo right now -- about half the price of .223) ($849 without handle)

    M1 Carbine in .30 caliber ($699 with walnut stock)

    I asked about the Remington 7600/7615. He had a 7615 on display (he actually had just about everthing I was considering on hand), and said it was fine, but had the same expensive ammo as the 5.65 EBRs.

    How does the list look so far? If I had to write a check right now, I think I'd buy the M1 Carbine: classic looks, simple to clean and maintain, lots of parts in the world, good defensive gun for short ranges, light, low recoil, cheap ammo. The other leading contender is the S&W: light, good price, cheapest ammo of all on this list at about 20 cents a round, lots of AR parts in the world, ability to change upper to .223 later if I want to. Good self-defense gun, soft recoil.

    I guess I still don't know.

  3. #23
    Method's Avatar
    Method is offline Member
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    I don't care if it's an EBR or not. Either way is good.

    What does EBR stand for?

  4. #24
    JustRick's Avatar
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    EBR = Evil Black Rifle. This applies to the AR15, AR10, AK-47, SKS, or anything else that looks like a scary military rifle. I believe the term dates back to the Clinton Gun Ban days, and means that a firearm is dangerous (in the mind of what are ill-informed and emotionally driven, or, more likely, the more cynical gun control advocates) because it looks evil. For some reason if it looks like an AK it's evil and must be outlawed today, but if it has a walnut stock and no pistol grip, it is less evil and can be outlawed tomorrow.

    EDITED: It can also mean "Enhanced Battle Rifle" -- the name of a US Navy program to build a better evil black rifle. In common forum usage, though, it's always evil.
    Last edited by JustRick; 11-02-2008 at 10:12 AM.

  5. #25
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Since AKs are fairly clunky rifles with poor sights, lousy ergonomics and gritty, long-travel triggers, I think I'd pass on those.

    The S&W M&Ps seem like good rifles, and the one in the Commie round is somewhat intriguing from a cheap-shooting standpoint. After carrying an M4 for a year in Afghanistan, I find them very clunky to carry around, but the clunkiness doesn't matter much for range shooting. Ergos are a lot better than AKs.

    The M1 Carbine is a fun rifle, but I don't know that I'd choose one for 200 yard shooting. The .30 Carbine cartridge is weak. Slick and very handy little gun, though!
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

    Donate to the Christian and Stephanie Nielson Recovery fund: http://www.nierecovery.com/.

    All opinions, particularly those involving politics and Glocks, are mine and not Galco's.

  6. #26
    RonH is offline Junior Member
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    Even if you need the rifle of your choice in that .001%, it is still better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

    I'm partial to FAL's. Fun to build and a blast to shoot.

    Not exactly an urban rifle. I wouldn't even think of lighting it off in the house or between houses.

    Much better in the great outdoors


    Tears up railroad tie base plates at 100 yards






    Female friendly too

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