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Thread: 9mm rifle?

  1. #1
    Marcus99 is offline Member
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    9mm rifle?

    I was just curious if there are any rifles that fire the 9mm round? I know there's the MP5 and 7, and other compact machine guns, but I mean something like a long rifle, ya know what I mean?

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    Liko81 is offline Member
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    Dunno about a traditional hunting rifle that fires 9mm, but the Beretta CX4 carbine is chambered for 9mm Luger. It's a tack driver too; it uses a similar sight system to older AR designs (before they went to the flat-top receiver), and a guy in the lane next to me on a recent trip was punching a ragged hole at 25 yards. It's about $800 new, so in the range of many new quality hunting rifles, and it puts a 9mm standard load well into supersonic, where a handgun would be right at the sound barrier.

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    220combat's Avatar
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    Besides the Beretta, there is also a High Point 9MM Carbine

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    jeb21 is offline Member
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    I have the Cx Storm in 9mm. It is a very reliable and accurate weapon. It uses the standard model 92 magazines.

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    Marcus99 is offline Member
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    I'm sorry, I meant to post this in the General Long Guns forum, not in the classifieds.

    I asked this because apparently there is a policy in place that Walmart holds that says you must be 21 to purchase handgun ammo. I found that surprising because you only need to be 18 to possess a handgun in NH, so it doesnt make sense that you need to be 21 to purchase ammo (then again, a lot of firearms laws dont make sense). According to Walmart its a federal law, too.

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    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus99 View Post
    I asked this because apparently there is a policy in place that Walmart holds that says you must be 21 to purchase handgun ammo. I found that surprising because you only need to be 18 to possess a handgun in NH, so it doesnt make sense that you need to be 21 to purchase ammo (then again, a lot of firearms laws dont make sense). According to Walmart its a federal law, too.
    They are correct.

    It has gotten a bit more complicated than it was originally, what with all the single-shot handguns chambered for rifle cartridges, and the lever-action rifles that shoot handgun rounds, but it's still the law.

    As far as the original question in the title, I once owned a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm (also made in .45). It was kind of like a wood-stocked Marlin .22 rifle that had finally grown up.
    Last edited by DJ Niner; 06-12-2008 at 02:48 AM.

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    ajs510 is offline Junior Member
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    I'm not sure if it's NY State Law, or just Gander Mountain policy, but my local store requires you to have a Pistol Permit to purchase pistol ammunition.

    My Dad discovered that little policy when he tried to buy me some rounds for my .40

  8. #8
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus99 View Post
    I asked this because apparently there is a policy in place that Walmart holds that says you must be 21 to purchase handgun ammo. I found that surprising because you only need to be 18 to possess a handgun in NH, so it doesnt make sense that you need to be 21 to purchase ammo (then again, a lot of firearms laws dont make sense). According to Walmart its a federal law, too.
    It is NOT a Federal law, it is Wal-Mart policy. I got into it with a store manager one time to the point that I asked him to show me where it states it's a Federal policy. He couldn't and admitted that it was a Wal-Mart policy and they just say it's a Federal policy to keep people from getting upset with Wal-Mart. I wonder if thats illegal in and of itself.

    I make a fun game out of it now. I went to buy some 9mm one day, and they asked me that question, so I said it was for a rifle. The guy ringing me up didn't say a word, but the other guy said, "Isn't 9mm pistol ammo?" I agreed but said this was for a rifle and he said well, we'll have to change that. I in turn asked him that if he could name 3 rifles that take 9mm. He could not of course, so I named off 3 and asked them how they can ask a question about something they have no knowledge of? I realize they are usually miminum wage employees, but man that just bothers me. Most times I just answer their age/ammo question with "You pick".

    Zhur

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    Marcus99 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    It is NOT a Federal law, it is Wal-Mart policy. I got into it with a store manager one time to the point that I asked him to show me where it states it's a Federal policy. He couldn't and admitted that it was a Wal-Mart policy and they just say it's a Federal policy to keep people from getting upset with Wal-Mart. I wonder if thats illegal in and of itself.

    I make a fun game out of it now. I went to buy some 9mm one day, and they asked me that question, so I said it was for a rifle. The guy ringing me up didn't say a word, but the other guy said, "Isn't 9mm pistol ammo?" I agreed but said this was for a rifle and he said well, we'll have to change that. I in turn asked him that if he could name 3 rifles that take 9mm. He could not of course, so I named off 3 and asked them how they can ask a question about something they have no knowledge of? I realize they are usually miminum wage employees, but man that just bothers me. Most times I just answer their age/ammo question with "You pick".

    Zhur
    How old are you?

    Its not a federal law, you are right. I asked the guy who runs the gun shop I usually go to and if theres something to know about the law, he knows it. I also did some research and to the best of my knowledge there is no federal law governing ammo and age restrictions.

    I was also at walmart today and the guy asked me for identification. I could have given him my drivers lisence, but I gave him my FID instead, which says in big bold letters Firearms Identification Card at the top, nothing about restricting it to rifles and shotguns. It also doesn't show my age except on the back in small letters. He took a look for a second and said, alright, what do you need, I told him the 9mm 115gr Winchesters and unfortunately, they were out. So I went to the gun shop and bought the same box for $24 versus $16.47 at Walmart.

    If it was a federal law then I wouldn't even consider figuring a way around it, but when I learned it was a Walmart crap policy then quite frankly I could care less. When I go back hopefully the guy will question me so I can give him some lip about it, haha.

  10. #10
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Sorry folks, being 21 to buy handgun ammo IS the law, at least for Federal Firearms Licensees (FFL dealers), which is what we're talking about here. From the BATFE Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs), located at:

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#f6

    -----------------------

    (F6) Does a customer have to be a certain age to buy firearms or ammunition from a licensee? [Back]

    Yes. Under the GCA, long guns and long gun ammunition may be sold only to persons 18 years of age or older. Sales of handguns and ammunition for handguns are limited to persons 21 years of age and older. Although some State and local ordinances have lower age requirements, dealers are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA. If State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age, the dealer must observe the higher age requirement.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1), 27 CFR 478.99(b)]



    (F7) May a licensee sell interchangeable ammunition such as .22 cal. rimfire to a person less than 21 years old? [Back]

    Yes, provided the buyer is 18 years of age or older, and the dealer is satisfied that it is for use in a rifle. If the ammunition is intended for use in a handgun, the 21-year-old minimum age requirement is applicable.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1), 27 CFR 478.99(b)]

    ----------------------

    The line under each response which starts with "18 U.S.C." is the reference to the specific part of the United States Code (Federal laws) which govern the answer to the question.
    Last edited by DJ Niner; 06-13-2008 at 02:06 AM.

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    Liko81 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Niner View Post
    (F7) May a licensee sell interchangeable ammunition such as .22 cal. rimfire, to a person less than 21 years old? [Back]

    Yes, provided the buyer is 18 years of age or older, and the dealer is satisfied that it is for use in a rifle. If the ammunition is intended for use in a handgun, the 21-year-old minimum age requirement is applicable.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1), 27 CFR 478.99(b)]
    Then I guess the question is whether 9mm Luger is an "interchangeable" ammo if there are rifles chambered for it. It depends on whether the BATFE considers carbines like the CX4 "rifles" or just big pistols in the same class as semi-auto MP5s and Thompsons. They have stocks and forends, and the OAL I believe complies with Federal law governing the minimum length of a rifle (though the barrel is shorter than 18"). I'll see if I can get an educated answer tonight; my local gun range sells and rents the CX4 so they should know what class of firearm they put down on the 4473 when someone buys one.

  12. #12
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    the dealer is satisfied that it is for use in a rifle
    The other part is convincing Wal-Mart that the ammo is intended for use in a rifle. Since the OP intends to use the ammo in a pistol, it would seem the purchase is, in fact, illegal if made from an FFL holder.
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    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liko81 View Post
    They have stocks and forends, and the OAL I believe complies with Federal law governing the minimum length of a rifle (though the barrel is shorter than 18"). I'll see if I can get an educated answer tonight; my local gun range sells and rents the CX4 so they should know what class of firearm they put down on the 4473 when someone buys one.
    I thought the 18" minimum length provision was for shotguns only and the rifle provision was 16" or is that what you are getting at? The storm is considered a Carbine, I bought mine out of state without a problem. I would not have been able to if it were a pistol.

    Zhur

  14. #14
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    The CX4 is legally a rifle.
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  15. #15
    Mister BLASTEE is offline Junior Member
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    I think the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is a 9mm rifle. Wish they were legel in CA

  16. #16
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister BLASTEE View Post
    I think the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is a 9mm rifle. Wish they were legel in CA
    The Sub 2000 is also legally a rifle. Neat little gun because it folds in half. My sister has one.
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    Marcus99 is offline Member
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    It would seem as though that state law overrides federal law, not judging from the posted quote or precedent. NH would appear to follow this, as it is an 18 year old possession age.

  18. #18
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus99 View Post
    It would seem as though that state law overrides federal law, not judging from the posted quote or precedent. NH would appear to follow this, as it is an 18 year old possession age.
    Basically, the stricter law is the one that must be followed. The federal law must be obeyed.
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    Marcus99 is offline Member
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    Are we certain if this law applies in NH? Now that I'm up here for vacation I'd be nice to be able to purchase ammo for my handguns without dragging my father along. Seems so odd that handgun possession age is 18 and ammo purchase age is 21, doesn't it.

  20. #20
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus99 View Post
    Are we certain if this law applies in NH? Now that I'm up here for vacation I'd be nice to be able to purchase ammo for my handguns without dragging my father along. Seems so odd that handgun possession age is 18 and ammo purchase age is 21, doesn't it.
    The federal law, as quoted by DJ Niner, clearly states that you have to be 21 to buy ammunition from an FFL for use in a handgun. Since you don't own a 9mm carbine, you obviously want to use the ammo in a 9mm handgun. This would be a violation of the law.
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