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  1. #21
    usmcj's Avatar
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    I don't know what any of this has to do with my original post. My original post had nothing to do with the care, staff, standards, physicians, or anything else within the VA



    Your original post directly addressed the VA.


    Originally Posted by berettabone

    Veterans should be especially concerned, if you get your medical care through the VA.

    It had everything to do, with the physician asking the questions about firearms in the first place
    VA docs don't ask about firearms unless another screening question leads to that. I've been a VA patient for many years,. and have never been asked about firearms.

  2. #22
    thndrchiken is offline Member
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    I live with my elderly handicapped parents as their caregiver, my father is going through the VA for his cancer treatment. I made sure to tell him that if these questions come up that the only response he is to give is a resounding no.

  3. #23
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    Actually, my first post makes absolutely no mention of the VA whatsoever........My second post does........If you have never been asked, good for you, but many have and are.
    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post


    Your original post directly addressed the VA.


    Originally Posted by berettabone

    Veterans should be especially concerned, if you get your medical care through the VA.



    VA docs don't ask about firearms unless another screening question leads to that. I've been a VA patient for many years,. and have never been asked about firearms.

  4. #24
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    Your second post. I stand corrected.

    There are no set of questions regarding firearms, asked to Veterans as a whole, unless a routine mental health screen, generates concerns of suicidal ideation. or seeking to do harm to others. Even after a suicide, or mental health risk was identified, in less than 6% of Veterans identified with suicidal ideation, was access to firearms recommended to be restricted. That recommendation is subject to adjudication.

    The PHQ-9 screen for depression and mental health triggers is located at this link. Note that firearms are NOT mentioned. The PHQ-9 screen was referenced in this study.

    PHQ-9



    Within the group of 230 primary care patients who had positive SI assessments, 214 (93%) had providers who documented specific acknowledgement of the positive assessments. For a majority (>65%), clinicians documented exploration for risk factors including hopelessness, past suicide attempts, psychiatric (including substance use) disorders, and pain, as well as relationship and occupational problems. A medication initiation or change was noted for 58% of patients, and mental health follow-up was arranged for 93%. Clinicians documented inquiries about firearms for only 23% of the patients, and recommendations to restrict access to firearms for 6%.
    HSR&D Study: DHI 08-096


    Quite often, stories abound that allude to Veterans being stripped of their gun rights because they have PTSD, or because their doc found out they had firearms. Not that simple .... never has been. Get ALL the facts, not just hearsay. After all, it is the internet.

    Y'all have a nice day.

  5. #25
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    So what I stated is happening, IS happening....I rest my case.
    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    Your second post. I stand corrected.

    There are no set of questions regarding firearms, asked to Veterans as a whole, unless a routine mental health screen, generates concerns of suicidal ideation. or seeking to do harm to others. Even after a suicide, or mental health risk was identified, in less than 6% of Veterans identified with suicidal ideation, was access to firearms recommended to be restricted. That recommendation is subject to adjudication.

    The PHQ-9 screen for depression and mental health triggers is located at this link. Note that firearms are NOT mentioned. The PHQ-9 screen was referenced in this study.

    PHQ-9





    HSR&D Study: DHI 08-096


    Quite often, stories abound that allude to Veterans being stripped of their gun rights because they have PTSD, or because their doc found out they had firearms. Not that simple .... never has been. Get ALL the facts, not just hearsay. After all, it is the internet.

    Y'all have a nice day.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettabone View Post
    So what I stated is happening, IS happening....I rest my case.
    Only in a specific set of circumstances, and not with just any or every Veteran, and NOT as a general matter of course. In which link did you find any question related to fireams? Are you insinuating that EVERY Veteran has PTSD? I hope not.. or that PTSD is viewed by the VA as grounds to prevent access to firearms? That isn't true either.

  7. #27
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    It seems that specific circumstances are happening more and more lately, which usually are the result of one person's opinion. Now, you're putting words in my mouth. I am not insinuating anything. I am stating facts, of which I have some personal observance to.....you can argue till the sun shines, and put words in other's mouths if you wish. All any physician has to do, is raise a red flag...that's all it takes, period.
    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    Only in a specific set of circumstances, and not with just any or every Veteran, and NOT as a general matter of course. In which link did you find any question related to fireams? Are you insinuating that EVERY Veteran has PTSD? I hope not.. or that PTSD is viewed by the VA as grounds to prevent access to firearms? That isn't true either.

  8. #28
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    See post 19...again....

    No department or agency of the Federal Government may provide to the Attorney General any record of an adjudication related to the mental health of a person or any commitment of a person to a mental institution if--

    (
    C) the adjudication or commitment, respectively, is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without an opportunity for a hearing by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority

    HR-2640 Section 3. (c)(1) IN GENERAL- No department or agency of the Federal Government may provide to the Attorney General any record of an adjudication related to the mental health of a person or any commitment of a person to a mental institution if--

    (A) the adjudication or commitment, respectively, has been set aside or expunged, or the person has otherwise been fully released or discharged from all mandatory treatment, supervision, or monitoring;

    (B) the person has been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to no longer suffer from the mental health condition that was the basis of the adjudication or commitment, respectively, or has otherwise been found to be rehabilitated through any procedure available under law; or

    (C) the adjudication or commitment, respectively, is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without an opportunity for a hearing by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority, and the person has not been adjudicated as a mental defective consistent with section 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code, except that nothing in this section or any other provision of law shall prevent a Federal department or agency from providing to the Attorney General any record demonstrating that a person was adjudicated to be not guilty by reason of insanity, or based on lack of mental responsibility, or found incompetent to stand trial, in any criminal case or under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

  9. #29
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    Yeah, I've seen all that, again.............

  10. #30
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    And, yet you see only what you want to see.

    If it is deemed by whomever, that a medication that you are prescribed is not " compatible with firearm ownership" guess who's going to come knocking for your firearms. It's happening already.
    Can you cite a case where firearms were taken ONLY on the basis of a prescription?.... or a case where firearms were taken ONLY as the result of one physician's statement?

  11. #31
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    What I do, is go by personal observations......I don't need to site anything.....it's like when the gov't comes out with unemployment numbers...then you ask them...did they take into account, the people who have just given up...well, no.........you can serve up all the numbers and statistics that you want...we all know, that 10 people studying the same problem, will come up with 10 different conclusions, and 10 different numbers......I have a VA hospital within 2 miles of me, and they have had their issues for years, well documented in my area....you seem to think, that everyone abides by every rule, every law, every set of procedures, every moral compass.........I'll end this conversation with......I have some really nice dry land I can sell you, it's by the Everglades, but it's really dry, honest.........and it's cheap. Your wrong in the fact that I see alot of things that I don't want to see.

  12. #32
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    I have some really nice dry land I can sell you, it's by the Everglades, but it's really dry, honest.........and it's cheap

    ... and the ethics of physicians is called into question....? Wow....

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post

    ... and the ethics of physicians is called into question....? Wow....
    Well if our imposter and chief can do it.... "taking little Jimmy's tonsils or cutting off a diabetics toes or ordering an unneeded surgical procedure for profit"

  14. #34
    SMann is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by swfan View Post
    i completely agree why all the drama, Im a doctor I have a gun
    what's the big deal. Just say no or say yes who cares
    When all health records are kept in a federally maintained database it may turn into a big deal. "Oh, you took ADD medication as a kid? I'm sorry, new regulations say you can't own firearms." You have to be able to see past the end of your nose.

  15. #35
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    Exactly............lot's of long noses......
    Quote Originally Posted by SMann View Post
    When all health records are kept in a federally maintained database it may turn into a big deal. "Oh, you took ADD medication as a kid? I'm sorry, new regulations say you can't own firearms." You have to be able to see past the end of your nose.

  16. #36
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    from a physician standpoint that doc was being a weirdo
    there is no law or medical rule saying owning a handgun has anything to do with your health
    yes i have read about studies linking owning handguns to increasing the risk of an unintentional discharge and someone getting hurt. kind of like smoking increases your risk of cancer doesnt mean it will happen.
    so to be clear it was just that doc there is no conspiracy or rule by the medical establishment to log who owns a gun and theres no tracking at this time and i don't ask my patients this question nor was I ever told or taught to do so. frankly i have more pressing questions to ask during my 15 min office visit

    now i will tell you about a real medical conspiracy as an insider sorry for going off topic but come 2014 good luck trying to see your doc because the health care reform act kicks in saying everyone is required by law to have health insurance which sure doesnt affect you except you forgot that 30 million people that were not insured now suddenly are by the govt and so talk about wait times to see your doc...socialized medicine ppl

  17. #37
    SMann is offline Member
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    swfan, that question is now standard in some places. Inform yourself please. What happens in your county and state isn't necessarily what happens in the rest of the country.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettabone View Post
    I was listening to a local radio show, and a woman was explaining, that she went to see her family physician, along with her two small children. The physician was asking the usual health questions, and then he asked if they had any firearms in their home. She told him, that if he could give her a legitimate reason why he needed to know, she would be happy to answer, otherwise, it was none of his business or the gov't's. He proceeded with the gov't blah,blah, blah. Then he said that he and his nurse would like to speak with her children, without her presence. She proceeded to tell him that it was illegal for an attorney to speak to her children without an adult present, it was illegal for LE to talk to her children without an adult present, so why would she allow him to speak to her children without an adult present. She then asked if he was going to treat her family. Eventually, he gave them treatment. Before she left, she told him, that if she comes back again, and he asks that question again, she will go to the hospital, and be treated in the emergency room, since she has good insurance......and then start looking for another physician. She also told him to be prepared to lose patients, and to keep his attorney handy, along with his wallet. I would have told him the same thing, albeit, not as politely.
    I find this whole anecdote kind of implausible. Especially the part about "He proceeded with the gov't blah,blah, blah." In my experience, the number of explanation points in a subject line is inversely proportional to how serious the post should be taken.

    Just my two cents!!!!!!!!!!!!

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