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  1. #1
    skullfr's Avatar
    skullfr is offline Member
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    Why you need to practice

    Been reading and It seems to come up everywhere.The FBI-Miami shootout.This is one of the best reasons for practice.The FBI at first wanted to blame the 9mmsivertip.Wrong.The biggest factor I concluded was poor training and tactics.Only 1 agent was wearing a vest properly.Although there were agents and backup on the way,They forced a felony stop in which they had no training.Suspect Platt fired over 40 rounds from a mini-14 .223 which did all the damage.The quality of the investigation was poor.They used terms like maybe fired x amount.This is an easy known fact.Look at number of spent cases.I hear the 1 9mm round that struck Platt is why they looked for the majic bullet.Two agents lost thier weapons in the intial crash and one became unarmed and the other used a backup.The report doesnt even add up.One place says 145 rounds fired but I count64 by thier individual report on who fired what.Sloppy work.OK,Platt recieved 12 rounds and Matix 6 rounds.My count according to published FBI report is 64.suspects recieved 18 rounds.That is 46 rounds that missed.This is a small area the fight took place in.These are "highly trained" agents.If the other figure of 145 is true this is even worse-127 misses.

    This is why the term practice practice practice comes from.Learn from stupid mistakes.Those brave agents died needlesly.If you want to read it. email me and I will give you the link to the FBI

  2. #2
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
    SouthernBoy is online now Senior Member
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    One of the best detail descriptions of this incident was written by Massad Ayoub in "The Ayoub Files: The Book".

  3. #3
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    ...Here's another, but not about pistols:

    The first Christmas of WW1, spontaneous fraternizing broke out, between the Allied and the German trenches in Flanders. Both sides met between the lines, shared food, drink, and tobacco, and enjoyed a Christmas-Day truce. Almost in minutes, the unplanned truce spread all the way from the Channel coast to the Swiss border.
    An English officer was hosting his German counterpart, for an impromptu tour of the British Army lines.
    "Where are your machine guns?" asked the German officer. "It's not fair of you to hide yours, since we have left ours in place where you saw them earlier."
    "We have no machine guns," replied the Britisher. "Our General Staff is a little behind the times."
    "But," said the German, "when my troops attacked your trench line, your men's rapid fire mowed them down like wheat. You must be using machine guns!"
    "No," replied the British officer. "But our men are trained to fire at least 20 aimed shots per minute from their (bolt-action) rifles. That's what you saw when you attacked us."
    "Lieber Gott!" exclaimed the German. "Unglšublich!"

    ...And that's why it's important to practice, practice, practice.

    When a British Army recruit had finished his rifle training, he was required to qualify in an exercise called the "Lord Roberts Match."
    From standing with a loaded rifle at port arms, the recruit was to assume any position he preferred, and was to fire as many hits as he could manage on a the silhouette of the head and shoulders of a man at 300 yards distance, all in one minute. If I remember correctly, the minimum qualifying score was 25 hits.
    Try it, and tell us how you did.

  4. #4
    chessail77's Avatar
    chessail77 is offline Senior Member
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    How many rounds did the weapon hold, if the one minute also included reloads that is almost unbelievable....JJ

  5. #5
    skullfr's Avatar
    skullfr is offline Member
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    On Top GUN they were using the Lee-Enfield.A Brit was demo the style used.He fired with middle finger and use the thumb and forefinger to work the bolt.It was amazing how fast he was.

  6. #6
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    1. I misspoke myself, and therefore needed to change my verbal diaper. I went back and re-read my original article (see: The Gun Zone, Why We Practice*), and found that the rate of fire was "only" 15 aimed rounds-per-minute, not 20 or 25.
    2. The Lord Roberts Match qualification may have been "merely" 15 hits in one minute, at 300 yards. (I disremember inaccurately.) Remember that the rifle used had open iron sights.

    I urge you to try it, even with a scoped semi-auto.
    I'll be betting against you.

    skullfr is correct about how the Lee Enfield bolt was manipulated. The rifle's magazine held 10 rounds, fed by two five-round stripper clips. The Lord Roberts Match qualification required at least one partial reload.

    *Click on: http://www.thegunzone.com/practice.html

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