Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    royaltysir is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    6

    Home Defense and Knowing the laws of Appropriate Force.

    I wanted to say at the beginning I am not an attorney so this shouldn't be considered as legal advice.
    I saw a new thread of a true incident on Msn.com of a Pharmacist who shot a robber in the head during a hold up. The unfortunate part of this case is that the Pharmacist didn't appear to be familiar with the laws of appropriate force. After the robber was down he went back and shot him 5 more
    times. If he had just shot him once it would have been a clear case of self defense. The link to the article is: Pharmacist gets life for killing would-be robber - US news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com. The specific article was entitled: "Oklahoma pharmacist sentenced to life for killing would-be robber." The article was about the question of self
    defense or murder.

    Why do I bring this up and that is the gun owner must know what the laws of their state, county, and city concerning gun ownership and using it in
    defense. If you think this is an easy task I would say not always. For example if someone spits on you it would be considered assault if the person
    shot him for spitting. Whereas, if a rapist was committing rape many times the person would be within their right to use deadly force. Of course
    say the girl chokes out the rapist and then when the rapist is unconscious comes back with a loaded weapon and unloads a full clip of ammo into the guy that probably would be considered murder. Knowing what you can do when is critical to staying out of jail. Knowing how much force you can use, when you can use this force, when it is appropriate to use a weapon, etc. could keep you out of Jail.

    What I find interesting many people think they know what the laws but they don't. I, personally, was a little surprised about the laws. Some other
    things to be concerned about after a shooting is witnesses, evidence at the scene, etc. What you think is an innocent
    comment could turn into a nightmare for yourself. Personally I think the best way is to work up a plan with an attorney's advice and review the laws that are pertinent like is it legal to shoot someone in the back if he has left your property and running away with your valuables. It should be obvious
    that owning a gun requires to knowledge gathering concerning your rights and what you can and cannot do. If it was me I would make sure I was
    familiar with the gun laws, the law of self defense, the law concerning appropriate force, etc. Take a class if you have to but don't assume you know it
    all.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sarasota Fla / Huntersville N.C.
    Posts
    457
    If somebody breaks into your home and is threatening you or your kids do you really thing what the law is , is going to be on your mind?

    All you're going to think is "Shoot, Shoot"

    AFS

  3. #3
    Grinder's Avatar
    Grinder is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    13
    The pharmacist basically reloaded and continued to shoot a guy who was no longer threat. Big mistake. He was definitely oblivious to the laws. I just took the CHL class here in TX and it opened my eyes to a lot of things. Some of the laws surprised me, but it is what it is. At the end of the day, you have to be ready to convince a jury that you acted within your rights.

  4. #4
    SMann is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    432
    Your first or second post on this forum contains a lecture? Thanks. Welcome.

  5. #5
    royaltysir is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    6
    I am not an attorney so I can give legal advice.
    Ouch my intention isn't to lecture but to inform. I see example after example how someone thinks they are using self defense but aren't. They don't know the laws
    and unfortunately for them there is excuse in the law for not knowing them. I generally get the flack well I don't have to think about that at the time. I know I just
    have to defend my family. Then you see news stories about the homeowner being arrested for shooting the assailant in the back while they were trying to flee with the homeowner's property. If you kill him it could be murder charges and the homeowner being sued for shooting the assailant. Then comes the response it doesn't matter and I am going to use the gun the way I want and you can't tell me anything that would dissuade me.

    The pharmacist is a perfect example of excessive force which applies to people as well as police officers. Often the other response is "it is better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6." The thing that is wrong here is that there is a duty among people that own firearms and use them for self defense to become aware of the laws
    regarding self defense. If you have ignorance of an issue concerning self defense the result can mean life in prison. It can ruin your life, it can get you sued, it can get you arrested, etc. Then I often get the response well I am not concerned about all that but you will be if you suffer the consequences of your actions for breaking the law. A simple solution exists that is to become familiar with the laws of self defense. Know what is legal and what isn't legal and try to handle your self
    defense issues around the restrictions of the laws in your city. Of course there are always extenuating circumstances as well. A simple resolution is to be informed.

  6. #6
    royaltysir is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    6
    Thank you for the welcome SMann.

  7. #7
    royaltysir is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    6
    Grinder you are absolutely right and if he had known the laws he probably would have stopped and the shooting would probably been considered self defense.

  8. #8
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    1,251
    Quote Originally Posted by royaltysir View Post
    I am not an attorney so I can give legal advice.
    Ouch my intention isn't to lecture but to inform. I see example after example how someone thinks they are using self defense but aren't. They don't know the laws and unfortunately for them there is excuse in the law for not knowing them. I generally get the flack well I don't have to think about that at the time. I know I just have to defend my family. Then you see news stories about the homeowner being arrested for shooting the assailant in the back while they were trying to flee with the homeowner's property.
    This is usually dependent on if there are holes in the FRONT of the assailant. If there is, then there's much less likelihood of arrest.

    If you kill him it could be murder charges and the homeowner being sued for shooting the assailant. Then comes the response it doesn't matter and I am going to use the gun the way I want and you can't tell me anything that would dissuade me.
    Can't disagree that being armed with information prior to an incident is a good idea, but if you have the crappiest lawyer around, the other side will say that you looked up this information so you could kill someone.

    The pharmacist is a perfect example of excessive force which applies to people as well as police officers. Often the other response is "it is better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6." The thing that is wrong here is that there is a duty among people that own firearms and use them for self defense to become aware of the laws regarding self defense.
    It could be said that it is the duty of all citizens to follow the law. Someone breaking into your home has already proven that they have no regard for the law. Like I said earlier, unless you have the crappiest lawyer around, or you just flat out went overboard, it won't land you in jail (assumptions made about a criminal in your home situation, but you get the drift)

    If you have ignorance of an issue concerning self defense the result can mean life in prison. It can ruin your life,
    It most undoubtedly WILL ruin your life, regardless of if it was a clean shoot or not. You still have to defend yourself in court, criminally or civilly if the family of the "ohh so upstanding, soon to be doctor who was just down on his luck", sues your ass off.

    it can get you sued, it can get you arrested, etc. Then I often get the response well I am not concerned about all that but you will be if you suffer the consequences of your actions for breaking the law. A simple solution exists that is to become familiar with the laws of self defense. Know what is legal and what isn't legal and try to handle your self defense issues around the restrictions of the laws in your city. Of course there are always extenuating circumstances as well. A simple resolution is to be informed.
    I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that any argument has a polar opposite, and this is true, more so in legal issues. It comes down more to when to shoot and determining when the threat is over. It could be argue that a person running from me is just as much a threat as one standing there with a gun... guns don't require that they are pointed level and in front of a person to work.

    Hell, a prosecutor could argue that since a person practices with their firearm and is proficient with it, that they were waiting for something to happen. Read Masaad Ayoob sometime (if you haven't already). There are countless stories of people getting themselves into trouble after a shooting because they start flapping their gums instead of calling a lawyer and shutting the hell up.

  9. #9
    SMann is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    432
    Using a firearm to neutralize a threat, reloading, then shooting the guy 5 more times tells me the pharmacist had bigger problems than not being aware of a law.

  10. #10
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    1,251
    Quote Originally Posted by SMann View Post
    Using a firearm to neutralize a threat, reloading, then shooting the guy 5 more times tells me the pharmacist had bigger problems than not being aware of a law.
    Precisely.

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Springfield Armory

» HGF Sponsors

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.1