Disturbing Facebook debate about rights

I've had an on going debate on my Facebook for three days after I posted a letter that I wrote to my senators concerning the TSA and their violation of the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution with the illegal searches. The last two people I thought who would disagree with me said that they are fine with the searches and are willing to give up some of their rights for safety. One even said he didn’t have a problem with the invasive searches on his kids or wife. Sadly, he is an active duty Marine- this is one reason I’m so surprised about his reaction.

I’m still upset about it and thought about it all day at work. The quotes from Franklin didn’t phases him and he passed it off as different times. I stated how they were going through much more difficulties during the formation of the America than we are now.

This is my first encounter with someone who is willing to give up his or her rights for perceived security.

Has anyone else experienced this? I hope not and I hope it’s just an anomaly.

Sadly, yes, I've seen that too. There's just some people that seem to have accepted the idea that the government is permitted to perform such searches simply because someone is flying.

A large number of those I've seen online who subscribe to this idea aren't from the US, however, and have an entirely different mindset concerning the role of government. Facebook friends are likely closer to home though.

I, for one, am bothered enough by that idea that I have no intention to board a plane until the searches are stopped. I've had people question me about the practicality of refusing to fly, but I've driven a third of the way across the country before, and the inconvenience of driving is worth the cost of not giving the government the chance to search me without cause, IMO.

KG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kg333

Sadly, yes, I've seen that too. There's just some people that seem to have accepted the idea that the government is permitted to perform such searches simply because someone is flying.

A large number of those I've seen online who subscribe to this idea aren't from the US, however, and have an entirely different mindset concerning the role of government. Facebook friends are likely closer to home though.

I, for one, am bothered enough by that idea that I have no intention to board a plane until the searches are stopped. I've had people question me about the practicality of refusing to fly, but I've driven a third of the way across the country before, and the inconvenience of driving is worth the cost of not giving the government the chance to search me without cause, IMO.

KG

---

I too have decided not to fly and we go to Florida to least once a year to see family. I will not allow my wife or daughters to be molested by TSA. I enjoy driving anyway.

I was thinking of getting this

http://c0573862.cdn.cloudfiles.racks...%20T-SHIRT.gif

found here

http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment

I have never been one for police to bust down the doors of private homes .
Even with a search warrant,they shouldn't.I could see myself getting shot
due to a reaction that I'd grab my loaded gun and and fire down on them.
To me,a person is innocent until proven guilty.Busting down ones door,
putting the wife and kids in danger is Big Brother at its worse.They want
to search my home?Show the search warrant.Don't come blowing into
my house at 2 A.M..All that will do in "my house" is empty my 9 M.M.
and probably create a widow.

I find myself to be rather slow in accepting the "New America" with its ongoing march towards what I kindly refer to as Global Fascism. Unsecured borders, outsourcing of American jobs, zillion dollar national debt, NAFTA/GAFTA BS, random stops of automobiles, "probable cause" free ride breakins, and all the myriad convolutions of the so called "Patriot Act", all of it gives me a belly ache without a cure. No end in sight. I am currently the victim of an old time fave of the government. Eminent domain has come knocking at my front door here in Indiana. It appears that the DOT would like to have half of my front yard for a bridge project they are putting together. A nice man called and said he would be stopping by to let me know how much they are going to pay me to steal my property. I have been here for over 25 years and have a great neighborhood and many friends. I will not, however, choose to live here whence the 18 wheelers are turned loose 40 feet from my front door. The nice man said that if I was a good boy, they might buy my entire property so I could get some of the soon to be greatly reduced equity out of it. Such a deal! This sucks mightily, but resistance is futile even lawyered up. To quote Dylan, "The times they are a changin'. As for the airline shakedowns, I have had that once allready, but they seemed mostly after my baggage and the shoes I was wearing. I will be flying in February so I plan to wear some really stinky old socks just in case.
May God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...
Eli

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bayhawk2

I have never been one for police to bust down the doors of private homes .
Even with a search warrant,they shouldn't.I could see myself getting shot
due to a reaction that I'd grab my loaded gun and and fire down on them.
To me,a person is innocent until proven guilty.Busting down ones door,
putting the wife and kids in danger is Big Brother at its worse.They want
to search my home?Show the search warrant.Don't come blowing into
my house at 2 A.M..All that will do in "my house" is empty my 9 M.M.
and probably create a widow.

---

I see this different. I was an Air Force Security Policeman and on the EST team (basically a SWAT team). Obviously we did not need warrants but if we announced ourselves post raid the raid would have been futile and we wouldn’t had scored as well on finding illegal drugs as we did.

On the civilian side probably cause is needed for a warrant and yes, they often screw those up but I would say that’s more of a rarity than common occurrence.

If someone busted my door and were calling out that they were police I would want to visual confirm that before I picked up a weapon. This could be a ploy on the criminal side but again, not very common.
In my debate I was referring to basic rights that are being taken away with little fight from the American people. It frustrates me to no end.

My wife and I rented a house that was built in 1902. Had some long odd shaped windows and finding blinds was proving to be difficult. I found some screen type stuff to put up and whilme it helped alittle at night with the lights on you could still see in our living room.

One night my wife and I were on the love seat playing a game on her laptop. The bassett hound we have was asleep on the other couch as he had been for the past hour. It was ad 11pm the dog jumped up ran out the back door into the fenced in backyard and started barking. My wife got up to get him in to not bother our neighbors. I was watching tv and I saw a light on the wall. Knowing it wasn't the headlight from a car I looked up but saw nothing in the window. Then I saw a light like from a flashlight and heard 2 guys talking.

Anyway, I get up grab my pistol ease through the foyer to the front door. I picked through the curtain and see 2 flaslights and hear 2 guys still whispering. I looked around no vehicle no nothing they just kept looking in the living room window. Eased the front door open, I tore open the storm door and screamed drop it. It was 2 city police officers. I apparently startled both of them as one dropped his flashlight and threw his hands up in the air.

I asked what they were doing and what right they had playing peeping tom looking in my windows without probable cause and no warranty. They proceeded to say they had a call 20mins ago that the dog was barking. And my wife and I sitting on the love seat was suspicious. I told them they had 30 secs to leave before I started phoning into to people. They left.

Positive side I worked for the city for awhile and knew who they were when they would come pick the patrol cars up in the garage. I went the next day to the police chief and mayor and filed complaints. Nothing ever happened.

Stuff like this is why a lot of people don't trust law enforcement. If it wasn't for the fact that half of my wife's side of the family is law enforcement I would have a strong dislike after that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brevard13

My wife and I rented a house that was built in 1902. Had some long odd shaped windows and finding blinds was proving to be difficult. I found some screen type stuff to put up and whilme it helped alittle at night with the lights on you could still see in our living room.

One night my wife and I were on the love seat playing a game on her laptop. The bassett hound we have was asleep on the other couch as he had been for the past hour. It was ad 11pm the dog jumped up ran out the back door into the fenced in backyard and started barking. My wife got up to get him in to not bother our neighbors. I was watching tv and I saw a light on the wall. Knowing it wasn't the headlight from a car I looked up but saw nothing in the window. Then I saw a light like from a flashlight and heard 2 guys talking.

Anyway, I get up grab my pistol ease through the foyer to the front door. I picked through the curtain and see 2 flaslights and hear 2 guys still whispering. I looked around no vehicle no nothing they just kept looking in the living room window. Eased the front door open, I tore open the storm door and screamed drop it. It was 2 city police officers. I apparently startled both of them as one dropped his flashlight and threw his hands up in the air.

I asked what they were doing and what right they had playing peeping tom looking in my windows without probable cause and no warranty. They proceeded to say they had a call 20mins ago that the dog was barking. And my wife and I sitting on the love seat was suspicious. I told them they had 30 secs to leave before I started phoning into to people. They left.

Positive side I worked for the city for awhile and knew who they were when they would come pick the patrol cars up in the garage. I went the next day to the police chief and mayor and filed complaints. Nothing ever happened.

Stuff like this is why a lot of people don't trust law enforcement. If it wasn't for the fact that half of my wife's side of the family is law enforcement I would have a strong dislike after that

---

Wow! That seems awful suspicious. It’s funny you scared the cop and he dropped his flashlight and his hands shot up. It sounds like he used to be on the other side of the law and his old habits kicked in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tnoisaw

I've had an on going debate on my Facebook for three days after I posted a letter that I wrote to my senators concerning the TSA and their violation of the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution with the illegal searches. The last two people I thought who would disagree with me said that they are fine with the searches and are willing to give up some of their rights for safety. One even said he didn’t have a problem with the invasive searches on his kids or wife. Sadly, he is an active duty Marine- this is one reason I’m so surprised about his reaction.

I’m still upset about it and thought about it all day at work. The quotes from Franklin didn’t phases him and he passed it off as different times. I stated how they were going through much more difficulties during the formation of the America than we are now.

This is my first encounter with someone who is willing to give up his or her rights for perceived security.

Has anyone else experienced this? I hope not and I hope it’s just an anomaly.

---

i have been ... fervent... in my opposition. Multi posts on FB have not gotten in to actuall discussions. More likely (in my case) those who have NOT been through it, just... don't... care. You know, that whole, "it's not happening to me" thing. I have a few flights coming up. I intend to make them wearing a Kilt.
I will NOT let my kids be groped. THis will open up a WHOLE can of $#it that don't need to be gone over again. so... we will not be flying any time soon as a family.
Unfortunately, after the "non-event" of protests on the 23 of Nov, i expect that the oh so effective for OUR rights media (by our i mean they protect THEIR 1st ammendment assiduasly, not yours or mine, or any other), i expect that NOTHING will come of the new strip search or handjob TSA technique protests.

I hope i am wrng, but i sure as hell doubt it.

IT'S CALLED THE POLICE/MILLITARY STATE
As we continue to drug and feminize our boys from birth,I fear we are living in the last generation of true freedom. :smt076:smt076:smt076:smt076

The TSA falls under the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA employees are being forced to enforce a policy that they didn't create. The left wing media then steps in and helps to focus the resulting anger of the American public towards the TSA employees instead of the policy makers. How much you wanna bet this results in the TSA becoming unionized? Then Obama gets the large, well funded, unionized, ran by one of his appointees, Gestapo he was calling for before he was elected. It's not the people that work at the airports that are the problem. Most people still can't see the hidden agenda behind most of what the current administration is doing. Until the masses wake up, we all will continue to be manipulated like sheep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SMann

The TSA falls under the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA employees are being forced to enforce a policy that they didn't create.

---

Whatever happened to people having morals?, If your boss was to tell you. that you were to molest children because its a new POLICY, you dont just throw up your hands and follow blindly."It's policy what can I do".At the Neurenburg trials for NAZI war crimes,"I was just following orders" still got you executed.Nice try,trying to make excuses for the TSA.


EdIt:I see you work for the govt. Now I see why you're making excuses for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SMann

The TSA falls under the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA employees are being forced to enforce a policy that they didn't create. The left wing media then steps in and helps to focus the resulting anger of the American public towards the TSA employees instead of the policy makers. How much you wanna bet this results in the TSA becoming unionized? Then Obama gets the large, well funded, unionized, ran by one of his appointees, Gestapo he was calling for before he was elected. It's not the people that work at the airports that are the problem. Most people still can't see the hidden agenda behind most of what the current administration is doing. Until the masses wake up, we all will continue to be manipulated like sheep.

---

The TSA is unionized already.
TSA Union: AFGE - On Your Side From the Begining -

TSA 's NEW GREETING
You can't see london
you can't see france
untill we feel inside your childrens underpants

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theberettaman

tsa 's new greeting
you can't see london
you can't see france
untill we feel inside your childrens underpants

---

lol!

Try a youtube search of "Grandma got molested by the TSA"

hint NSW.

Would be hilariouos iff not so true!

I'm not defending anyone. Attacking the employees will not solve anything even if they are abusing their authority. Change the policy and the problem is solved. Focusing on the result won't fix the cause. Also, membership in the AFGE is still voluntary as far as I can tell. I am referring to forced unionization of everybody in the TSA.

Maybe I wasn't clear before. I do not condone nor am I trying to defend the rediculous actions of certain TSA employees. If any of them have broken any laws or violated the policies or procedures of their agency , then they should be delt with accordingly. However, if no laws or policies were broken then complaining about their conduct without offering possible solutions results in nothing more than a bitch session. If they haven't done anything 'techinically' wrong, but their conduct is still unacceptable, then I suggest the rules directing them need changed. The Marine Corps taught me not to complain about something without offering a solution. That's all I'm trying to do.

Solutions have been offered but they are too politically correct to implement any policy that has anything to do with Israel. I highly doubt if most of the TSA employees know anything about the Fourth Amendment or any other parts of the constitution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tnoisaw

Solutions have been offered but they are too politically correct to implement any policy that has anything to do with Israel. I highly doubt if most of the TSA employees know anything about the Fourth Amendment or any other parts of the constitution.

---

I only know of one. He put in his notice last week and is looking for new work.

Speaking of which, if anyone in the Lexington area is looking for a gun-savvy guy for security or firearms related work, he'd almost certainly be interested. Let me know and I'll pass it along to him.

KG