Originally Posted by mik3gun

I am no sure if this the correct section to put this post. But yesterday night I saw this on tv..

In other internet site they dont talk about the argue. Is this self defense if the other guy didnt had any gun, knife.. only a cigar in his hand?.

Not sure I would be purposely tailgating someone which quite frequently results in road rage. I hate tailgaters because if I had to stop quickly I don't want to be rear-ended and either damage my vehicle or get injured or both. But I would not get out of my car and confront the idiot either.

Getting upset over the distance someone choses to follow behind you is just plain stupid. Getting out of your car to confront someone is just plain brainless.

Originally Posted by Couch Potato

Getting upset over the distance someone choses to follow behind you is just plain stupid. Getting out of your car to confront someone is just plain brainless.

Call me stupid then because I think tailgating is just asking for a wreck to happen or road rage as what happened here. I do agree getting out of the car to confront someone was brainless.

Sad, sad, sad.

Originally Posted by mattdillon

Call me stupid then because I think tailgating is just asking for a wreck to happen or road rage as what happened here. I do agree getting out of the car to confront someone was brainless.

The only way a car behind you will hit you is if you do something unexpected no matter how close they are following. Yes, smart drivers always stay at least two seconds, preferably a bit more, behind the car in front of them because unexpected things happen every day.

Note that at a stop sign or red light, any distance short of hitting the car infront of you is more than two seconds behind. Part of my daily commute is a left-turn lane that often backs up beyond the length of the turn lane. Out of consideration to the drivers behind me I always stop as close as possible to the car infront of me to maximize the use of the space in the lane. Occasionally some inconsiderate dimwit infront of me with a whole car length of space infront of them will express displeasure at how close I am. I typically just shake my head an laugh at the self-centered morons.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the comment that the "only way a car behind you will hit you is if you do something unexpected no matter how close they are following".

There is a reason that the person that rear ends the car in front is ALWAYS at fault in an accident. It is NEVER the leading car that is ticketed because he is not at fault, it the the trailing car that has made an error and therefore ticketed and found at FAULT.

I can't stand people that tailgate and drive too closely. That is exactly how accidents happen and people wind up dead. I have seen many accidents where the trailing car was too close to stop in time.

That is also why you can be ticketed for driving too close. The leading car does not get a ticket for allowing someone to be too far.

Originally Posted by mik3gun

I am no sure if this the correct section to put this post. But yesterday night I saw this on tv..

In other internet site they dont talk about the argue. Is this self defense if the other guy didnt had any gun, knife.. only a cigar in his hand?.

If this part is true:

tried to open the door of the Tacoma and was seen reaching in through the driver's side window

Then yes, IMO, although regrettable. At least in KY, we have laws specifically addressing this situation:

Originally Posted by KRS 503.050

The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable under subsection (1) only when the defendant believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious physical injury, kidnapping, sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat, felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055.

KRS 503.055 contains the following:

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person's dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

However, these news articles are always a "he said she said" type of deal; it's nearly impossible to properly judge the incident from them. In my case at least, I'm not a big guy, and I don't stand a chance hand-to-hand...I'm not going to risk my life guessing on whether a man who is shouting profanities and trying to get into my car is going to stop with throwing a few punches.

Thanks for posting the story, OP. I wasn't sure whether KY's laws on the Castle Doctrine applied to vehicles or not until I looked them up for this post...good info to know.


And on the tailgating topic:

Originally Posted by Couch Potato

The only way a car behind you will hit you is if you do something unexpected no matter how close they are following.

You mean unexpected things like:

*slowing or stopping to avoid a deer?
*stopping to avoid a child running into the road?
*swerving to avoid the yahoo who changed lanes without looking?



KG

Originally Posted by Couch Potato

The only way a car behind you will hit you is if you do something unexpected no matter how close they are following. Yes, smart drivers always stay at least two seconds, preferably a bit more, behind the car in front of them because unexpected things happen every day.

Note that at a stop sign or red light, any distance short of hitting the car infront of you is more than two seconds behind. Part of my daily commute is a left-turn lane that often backs up beyond the length of the turn lane. Out of consideration to the drivers behind me I always stop as close as possible to the car infront of me to maximize the use of the space in the lane. Occasionally some inconsiderate dimwit infront of me with a whole car length of space infront of them will express displeasure at how close I am. I typically just shake my head an laugh at the self-centered morons.

Couch,
If you "always stop as close to possible to the car infront to maximize space" out of courtesy it is still not sound defensive driving. Smith Defensive Driving which at work I am required to attend annually says to stop behind a vehicle far enough back to see their rear tires. Knock on wood at age 57 I have yet to be involved in an at fault accident. Call me lucky or whatever, but I do practice good defensive driving habits. Tailgating is dangerous at any speed. Whiplash can result at very low speeds and neck injuries can last a lifetime. I am not saying you are not a safe driver and based upon what you said you seem to be a very courtesy one at that, but the driver in front of a tailgater is at risk when being tailgated. I have witnessed too many road rage events from this very issue. With as many people carrying firearms today, both legally and illegally, I would not have gotten out of my car to confront the tailgater and if I did I sure as heck would not have tried to do what this moron did.

Originally Posted by Hstead

There is a reason that the person that rear ends the car in front is ALWAYS at fault in an accident. It is NEVER the leading car that is ticketed because he is not at fault, it the the trailing car that has made an error and therefore ticketed and found at FAULT.

Except that I have known of cases where drivers will cut folks off and slam on the breaks, sometimes intentionally to collect insurance. The guy who rear ends could not have prudently prevented it.

I always wanted to be in court to hear those cases, where an innocent driver is found guilty of negligence.

Hi all.

Good opinions but what about the law, I read about stand your ground here in florida.
I think the point here, is not about how to drive safely. The point is about the murder.

If that was self-defense, the guy should be free right now, isnt it? or the person who kill other one have to pay a lot of money with lawyer...

The other guy didnt have any bat, or gun, or knife.... and even the guy could be keep going with his car instead of kill the other guy.or not?
what do you think?

In a way it is about how to drive safely. As that is tied into motive, which might come into play. Personally, I probably would have stuck my gun right between his eyes, held off on the trigger and then plugged my nose.

I think it was excessive, but the shooter appears to be within his rights. Also, I would not have gotten out of my vehicle to give someone a piece of my mind.

Originally Posted by mik3gun

Hi all.

Good opinions but what about the law, I read about stand your ground here in florida.
I think the point here, is not about how to drive safely. The point is about the murder.

If that was self-defense, the guy should be free right now, isnt it? or the person who kill other one have to pay a lot of money with lawyer...

The other guy didnt have any bat, or gun, or knife.... and even the guy could be keep going with his car instead of kill the other guy.or not?
what do you think?

We are basing our opinions on just what was reported on here. We weren't there. The lawyers will fight this out in court. The point being, however, is there would not have been a life taken IF the tailgating driver had been using common sense and not followed the vehicle too closely. And though the front car passengers had a right to be irritated, they had no business jumping out of the car and confronting the tailgater. This type of scenario escalates and become out of control in a hurry.
This was a needless murder.

Originally Posted by mik3gun

Hi all.

Good opinions but what about the law, I read about stand your ground here in florida.
I think the point here, is not about how to drive safely. The point is about the murder.

If that was self-defense, the guy should be free right now, isnt it? or the person who kill other one have to pay a lot of money with lawyer...

The other guy didnt have any bat, or gun, or knife.... and even the guy could be keep going with his car instead of kill the other guy.or not?
what do you think?

What murder? Someone was shot and died, but nobody was murdered.

The guy is free right now.
Murdock waited at the scene, was interviewed by detectives and later released.

No, the other guy did not have a bat, gun, or knife; he had a lighter. Ever seen someone on fire?