Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Legal sale?

  1. #1
    tschmittel's Avatar
    tschmittel is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    125

    Legal sale?

    I listed a revolver on Gunbroker.com. In the add I stated that I did not have an ffl. Upon the completion of the auction, I contacted the buyer and instructed him that I needed the money order and a copy of the FFL of the place where he was going to get the transfer. After receiving both and checking the FFL with the BATFE website to insure authenticity, I sent the gun from IL to MI via UPS following all fo their guidelines with shipping a firearm, including instructing them of the contents. I heard from the FFL place that he picked to do the transfer. He told me it was an illegal sale and that I needed a FFL to send a gun to MI and to sell a gun. I responded that I did not agree. He is calling BATFE on Monday to alert them of this. What do you think? I believe everything I did was on the up and up. I did everything to the letter according to Gunbroker. Does anyone have any insight? Sorry for the long post, but I'm a little freaked out.

  2. #2
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,873
    You shipped in from an actual "UPS Shipping Center" and not just an "Authorized Outlet" right? And shipped it overnight? If so, I don't see what's wrong with the transaction. Most of what I've heard though, people ship using FedEx. It's a joke what you have to go through to ship handguns if you don't have an FFL license.

    -Jeff-
    Last edited by BeefyBeefo; 11-08-2008 at 08:03 PM.

  3. #3
    tschmittel's Avatar
    tschmittel is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    125
    I made sure it was shipped legally. The UPS employee was informed it was a handgun. It was overnight, with a signature required , and to an FFL holder. I think the older gentleman was a little mixed up on the laws regarding this stuff.

  4. #4
    bruce333's Avatar
    bruce333 is offline HGF Forum Moderator
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Wilson's Mills, NC
    Posts
    2,496
    Sounds like you followed the law to me.

    According to the MI State Police you did also.

    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...0953--,00.html
    3. My father-in-law, who lives in Georgia, has two firearms which he wants to give me. Can I legally go to Georgia and bring the guns back to Michigan?

    No. The Federal Gun Control Act of 1968 generally prohibits the transportation into or receipt in the state where a person resides of a firearm obtained outside of that state. The transfer of the firearms would be lawful if your father-in-law sends the firearms via common carrier (such as UPS) to a licensed firearms dealer in Michigan. The Michigan firearms dealer can then transfer the firearms to you providing you meet all statutory requirements. If the firearm is a pistol, a License to Purchase or valid Concealed Pistol License is required.
    Sadly, some dealers just don't know the laws that well.
    Bruce, Life Member: NRA, NCRPA, GRNC, GOA

    Naval Air Museum Barbers Point

    "I personally think we developed language because of our deep inner need to complain."--Jane Wagner
    "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
    -Isaac Asimov

  5. #5
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,873
    Quote Originally Posted by bruce333 View Post
    Sounds like you followed the law to me.
    I agree.

  6. #6
    tschmittel's Avatar
    tschmittel is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    125
    Thanks guys, that makes me feel a little better.

  7. #7
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    723
    I was always under the impression that a firearms could only be transferred from one FFL to another FFL i.e. you find a dealer in your state who then ships it to a FFL in the buyer's state. That is how I did it when I sold a gun to someone in a different state several years ago.

    Anytime I have shipped a firearm anywhere I had it done by a FFL.

    When I was a police officer I seem to remember a brief from the ATF statting that the only way to transfer ownership across state lines was via transfer between FFLs. I could be remembering that wrong.

    I hope this all works out for you.

  8. #8
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,873
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarmigan View Post
    I was always under the impression that a firearms could only be transferred from one FFL to another FFL i.e. you find a dealer in your state who then ships it to a FFL in the buyer's state. That is how I did it when I sold a gun to someone in a different state several years ago.

    Anytime I have shipped a firearm anywhere I had it done by a FFL.

    When I was a police officer I seem to remember a brief from the ATF statting that the only way to transfer ownership across state lines was via transfer between FFLs. I could be remembering that wrong.

    I hope this all works out for you.
    I always see people in classifieds on forums saying "make sure your FFL accepts shipment from a non-FFL holder." The way I understand it is, it is legal, but there are some FFLs out there that will not accept shipments from a non-FFL holder.
    -Jeff-

  9. #9
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,373
    I'm really not sure..I've always used an FFL holder to ship from. It just made things air tight.

  10. #10
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwest Washington State
    Posts
    5,451
    According to the BATF rule book, a private citizen may ship any gun to any FFL holder.
    Further, an FFL holder may ship a private citizen's own weapon, sent in for (for instance) repairs, back to that private citizen; and the FFL holder is allowed to use the US Postal Service, too.
    What's even weirder is that a private citizen may ship any gun he already owns, from himself at any address, to himself at any other address, without going through an FFL holder at either end. The only restriction is that the shipment must be made for a legitimate purpose.
    The same rule applies to any firearm that is to be received pursuant to a bequest in a will. Any executor may ship any legal firearm to any heir-recipient, without recourse to an FFL holder.

  11. #11
    DJ Niner's Avatar
    DJ Niner is offline HGF Forum Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    North-Central USA
    Posts
    4,415
    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    I always see people in classifieds on forums saying "make sure your FFL accepts shipment from a non-FFL holder." The way I understand it is, it is legal, but there are some FFLs out there that will not accept shipments from a non-FFL holder.
    -Jeff-
    That's true, and the reason why is the BATFE requirement for the FFL to enter the seller/tranferror's name & address in his "bound book" (or equivalent) as the person or business entity that shipped him the firearm. I've heard that the BATFE has written-up FFLs for making entries in their books that they cannot prove, or do not have documentation to support. If the gun comes from a FFL, they get a copy of the license with the shipment, check it online at the BATFE's website, and all is well. If it comes from an individual, how do they know who really sent it? Even a copy of a drivers license is useless as ID without a face right in front of you to compare it to.

    I've never heard of an FFL reporting this as a violation, but I guess I can see them doing that to cover their butt if they have a policy not to accept gun shipments from non-dealers. I'd recommend calling and trying to get a specific reference as to what law they think was broken.

  12. #12
    DJ Niner's Avatar
    DJ Niner is offline HGF Forum Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    North-Central USA
    Posts
    4,415
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilsJohnson View Post
    ...I've always used an FFL holder to ship from. It just made things air tight.
    As have I. More expensive, yes, but it leaves a better paper trail, reduces the chance of a hot gun moving across state lines, and the FFLs have to deal with anything lost in transit.

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Springfield Armory

» HGF Sponsors

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.1