View Poll Results: ND or AD

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  • ND

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  • AD

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  1. #1
    Todd is offline Banned
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    AD or ND in this situation?

    Let's say you own a gun that has a known mechanical flaw that causes it to fire when dropped. You choose not to have it fixed. So now you drop the gun, and it fires. Would you consider that an AD since it's a mechanical failure or would you consider that a ND since your negligence in handling the firearm ultimately led to its firing?

    Personally, I have to lean towards ND for two reasons; failure to handle a firearm safely and the fact that you knew of the problem and did not get it it fixed.

  2. #2
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    I'd say ND. It'd be like knowing your breaks are bad on your car and not fixing them. Negligent all the way.

    Zhur

  3. #3
    tekhead1219's Avatar
    tekhead1219 is offline Senior Member
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    I agree with the ND. You know there's a problem but don't fix it? No brainer.

  4. #4
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    ND, no question.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

    Donate to the Christian and Stephanie Nielson Recovery fund: http://www.nierecovery.com/.

    All opinions, particularly those involving politics and Glocks, are mine and not Galco's.

  5. #5
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekhead1219 View Post
    I agree with the ND. You know there's a problem but don't fix it? No brainer.
    A no-brainer for all that replied, but I'm sure, sadly, that there is someone out there in this world that would put the blame on the gun. Maybe we'll even see someone here!?!

  6. #6
    unpecador's Avatar
    unpecador is offline Senior Member HGF Gold Member
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    The obvious negligence is avoiding to fix a known problem. It's possible the dropping may occur from something other than negligent handling. Either way, fixing the gun should take presedence.

  7. #7
    Fred40 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    A no-brainer for all that replied, but I'm sure, sadly, that there is someone out there in this world that would put the blame on the gun. Maybe we'll even see someone here!?!

    Hard to imagine. ND all the way.

  8. #8
    kev74's Avatar
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    Its negligence on two counts. One on the part of the manufacturer who releases a gun without completing the necessary safety testing, and on the part of the operator who doesn't get the thing fixed.

    In this instance, there's no mechanical failure (i.e. nothing broke), but rather a faulty design on the part of the manufacturer that should have been caught before production started.

    It will be interesting to see if the SR9 and LCP in their original unrepaired configurations become collectible in 20 years.

  9. #9
    Spartan's Avatar
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    If one neglects to fix a firearm with a known issue, and it goes off because of that issue, it was discharged neglectfully. ND for sure.

  10. #10
    tekhead1219's Avatar
    tekhead1219 is offline Senior Member
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    If we do see someone here.....we can beat it into them.

  11. #11
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    ND. There is no such thing as an AD, in my opinion and according to all the training I have received.

  12. #12
    TOF's Avatar
    TOF
    TOF is offline Senior Member
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    It is obviously the manufacture's fault, not.

    ND without question.

  13. #13
    JeffWard's Avatar
    JeffWard is offline Senior Member
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    If you follow the correct rules and practices for handling ANY firearm (ie every gun is a loaded gun... keep your booger-hook off the bang-switch, etc...) there is NO SUCH THING AS AN A.D.!!!

    ADs do not happen.

    Like a surgeon accidentally amputating the wrong arm...
    Like accidentally crossing the center line in your car and killing someone…
    Like accidentally shooting someone in the face with a shotgun…
    Like accidentally cheating on your wife…

    Accidental Discharge is laughing so hard you pee your pants….

    … and that’s about the only case…

    My Un-Opinionated Opinion
    JW

  14. #14
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWard
    Accidental Discharge is laughing so hard you pee your pants….
    That is some funny crap, Jeff.

  15. #15
    stetson is offline Junior Member
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    Your kidding right? Who would let a pistol out with known mechanical
    defects ? Just asking for trouble !

  16. #16
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by stetson View Post
    Your kidding right? Who would let a pistol out with known mechanical
    defects ? Just asking for trouble !
    Let's just say I got the idea from a statement made from a member in another, recent thread.

  17. #17
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    Thumbs down

    ND

    Anytime you can negate a dangerous situation but choose to not then your inaction is responsible for any problems that inaction causes. Your brakes go bad you fix them. It's still your fault if you don't then wreck your car.
    Last edited by DevilsJohnson; 11-15-2008 at 07:43 PM. Reason: toy? whew fixed spelling

  18. #18
    niadhf's Avatar
    niadhf is offline Senior Member
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    and "holy greatness" forbid that that member ever have an issue with that gun. Funny though there is no AD response yet..........

    Negligence is not acting a in a responsible matter. so ND. The discharge part is just the aftermath. or the begining of the aftermath probably.

  19. #19
    Bisley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Let's just say I got the idea from a statement made from a member in another, recent thread.
    Somebody trolling for me?

    When somebody drops a gun, it is negligence, whether there is a discharge or not. For the rest of it, you and your posse can discuss it among yourselves and I'll check back in a couple of days for your ruling.

  20. #20
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bisley View Post
    Somebody trolling for me?

    When somebody drops a gun, it is negligence, whether there is a discharge or not. For the rest of it, you and your posse can discuss it among yourselves and I'll check back in a couple of days for your ruling.
    Well, I was keeping it anonymous as to who "inspired" the thread but since you outed yourself, this is the quote that got me thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bisley View Post
    I have an LCP that has to go back.

    I'm still carrying it every day, and I still shoot it regularly. I just don't drop it.
    I don't care what anyone else says, my opinion is it is arrogant and irresponsible to carry a gun that has a known mechanical defect because you "don't drop guns". That gun should be sitting in the safe until it is fixed! If you'd only take yourself out if the unthinkable and impossible happened and you dropped then gun and it fired, then I wouldn't care. I'd chalk another one up to Darwin and move on. But the fact that you are carrying it regularly and bringing it to the range, where you are putting other people in danger because of your hubris, is appalling to me. I don't need a "posse" to discuss it with to come to that conclusion.

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